does anyone has a reason to use Windows(pc) and not mac?
- Thread starter alexandergre
- Start date
That calls for Linux there. There's viruses, spyware, adwares for both Windows and Apple/Mac alike. You hear more of it on pc however due to the far large percentage of pc users compared to Mac. More malwares have been written for Windows due to this.
tlarkin
VIP Member
Darwine, is not an emulator. It is a set of windows APIs that allow you to run windows software natively. It is just like WINE for linux, which is not emulation. There is an application you can buy called crossover ( http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/ ) and an open source version called darwine ( http://darwine.opendarwin.org/ ).
Then you have Parallels work station, which again is not emulation. It is virtualization. Its a virtual desktop of windows XP.
Vritual PC is no longer needed, and it is only needed to run on older PPC platform based macs. In fact emulation software is pretty much obsolete these days because it simply took up too much resources. Virtualization is wehre it is at now.
Geoff
VIP Member
None huh? http://www.ambrosiasw.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102379
And since Mac switched to the x86 architecture, it's much easier for programmers to create viruses for both Mac and PC's.
tlarkin
VIP Member
[-0MEGA-];479954 said:
Look, I am not going to argue a bunch over this but that is hardly an exploit. First off if you understand anything about Unix permissions this is simply avoided by not running an administrator account. Since OS X uses the /etc/sudoers method of giving a user root access the root user account never needs to be enabled because admins can have root privlidges via /etc/sudoers
Now, any smart user can simply set up an admin account, and a basic user account. Use the basic user account for everything, using the computer, running apps, playing games, surf the net, burn dvds, etc. Then anytime software needs to be installed or something needs root level access you can simply authenticate with the admin account you already created or do a sudo command via terminal.app in the CLI.
Also, that is more of an exploit and has already been fixed via OS X 10.4.8 update, and it required the user to do a lot of things and required them to unzip the file. This is more about the user than the system. The same thing can be said about email attachments.
However, I digress, anything that needs access the /System Folder directory in OS X requires root level access. Not logging in as an administrator does not give you access to it. Therefore any app trying to access those directories can not do so due to insufficient permissions.
This is what makes OS X so intuitive, with admins having root privlidges via /etc/sudoers and the easy to use UI of aqua.
OS X has its issues right now, mainly with rosetta, but that will all go away when Leopard is released.
As far as making it easier for viruses to be developed because of its x86 based platform I am not totally sure of, mainly because I am not a software developer. I know pretty much know next to nothing about programming except for a few basic concepts of how it works. So, unless you can back that statement up with fact, I am going to say you are probably wrong.
What MS needs to do, is drop the stupid registry, go over to self contained applications, and a unix like permission system. Making everything more secure by file permissions alone. Windows has so many loop holes and security holes in it. It is almost nearly impossible to lock down a windows system completely because of how it is set up.
tlarkin
VIP Member
I have 700 macs at my work, we run zero virus protection on them and have never ever had a virus. In my 7 years of working IT, I have never once seen a mac with a virus. I am not saying they don't exist, I am saying it is extremely rare.
I know once apple gets a higher market share they will probably start getting things like viruses but as of now, I have yet to see a bonofied real virus on OS X.
I know once apple gets a higher market share they will probably start getting things like viruses but as of now, I have yet to see a bonofied real virus on OS X.
Geoff
VIP Member
So instead of saying:
You should have said that during your 7 years of working with 700 Mac's, I have yet to seen a Mac with a virus.
Mac OS X faces worms while no mention of file infections is as common;ly heard of as pc infections are. But if you keep going online eventually you will get hit with something. There is no OS that is ever 100% fool proof. The OSX.Leap.A was a worm. That spread from machine to machine. How about the first Mac OS X virus? http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/02/20060216005401.shtml
Anyone for the OSX Macarena virus? "Macarena Virus Targets Macs" http://www.techweb.com/wire/security/193501710
Anyone for the OSX Macarena virus? "Macarena Virus Targets Macs" http://www.techweb.com/wire/security/193501710
MyCattMaxx
Active Member
I use a PC because I think Mac sucks!! I will go back to my VIC20 before a MAC!!
tlarkin
VIP Member
Well, I am not trying to be an ass here, but if you actually knew what you were talking about you would have seen me and Omega already discuss this exploit. It is more of a social engineering exploit, rather than a trojan. However, it is classified as a trojan. This not only required user interaction, it required the user to unzip and execute the contents of the file. Not only that, but it only effected users running as administrator. If the user was running as a managed user (apple calls them simple users) then the exploit would have no effect. Not to mention this exploit was fixed with the very next security update from apple.
This sounds iffy. None gives any technical detail of how it effects the system, here is the official how to on symantec...
http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-110217-1331-99&tabid=3
To quote symantec, this is what they call it.
They say it has to be executed, and then it just attaches itself to every file in the directory it is saved/executed in reguardless of file extension.
I would not call this a virus at all, this must be explained in greater detail exactly what it does. Not to mention when symantec first released info about the virus they were telling users to disable system restore in windows XP, LMAO!. It is assumed that since the infection rate is so low this also requires user interaction. However, obviously we must wait for more details first.
http://www.heise-security.co.uk/news/80500
Here is another good link on it. Overall, if that is the extent to malware/viruses in OS X, then compare it to windows, I would say there are still pretty much NO known viruses for the Mac platform. This could very well be propaganda.
I digress though, apple does definitely need to up their security efforts and start planing ahead when it comes to these things. It may hit them sooner than they think if they start getting a much larger market share.
That is fine, but that is a matter of opinion, and I am going to go out on a limb here and assume you have pretty much never used a mac extensively.
To be fair, if everyone didn't use their XP machine logged in as an Administrator all the time a lot of the viri wouldn't work either.
But they don't say how it's executed, it could be user execution at which point it's another socially engineered threat or it could be something that's executed by the crontab after the user runs the 'setup' program for it. Either way a lot of viri work this way on Windows, the user has to be tricked into downloading or running some file. Before we get into some big discussion/arguement on this, I agree with you completely that there are very few threats a Mac user has to worry about right now.
MyCattMaxx
Active Member
I just saw on tv where hackers are now going after Mac's!!
MyCattMaxx
Active Member
Only idiots get a virus because they did something stupid!!!
tlarkin
VIP Member
Yes, Cromewell, you are right in a sense. However, Unix permissions, and Windows permissions work in very different manners. The windows kernel and the OS X kernel also work in many different manners.
The windows kernel allows device drvies direct access to it for instruction, where as the OS X kernel is more of a micro kernel and runs those things as high level processes.
Also, since the persmissions are so much different, how the user account works is drastically different. I can run a simplified user account under OS X, and anytime Admin, or root level access is needed it will prompt me for a password for an admin log in to verify. This also brings the user some awareness of what is going on. Users who execute anything and open email attachments are obvivously going to infect themselves reguardless of whatever platform they use. There is really no cure for that.
Assuming the super low amounts of reported infections I can only guess that it is downloaded, unzipped, then executed just like all the other "proof of virus" for OS X.
Now, limiting an account in windows is harder, because a lot of things require admin rights. We ran into this at my work a lot. So, every student logs in with their student ID, and they are logged in as an administrator in windows, but zen pushes out group policy/permissions to limit their access and power. This could also be acheived running windows AD, however not every normal user is going to set up an AD Domain in their house, well MS would love every user to for the money they would get from sales, but its not going to happen.
I am not saying windows has nothing better over OS X, I am just saying when it comes to viruses, malware, trojans, etc OS X has beat the crap out of windows in that area.
I will state this again for the record though, Apple does need to take some actions in their developement to plan for such things, because eventually one day it will happen.
The windows kernel allows device drvies direct access to it for instruction, where as the OS X kernel is more of a micro kernel and runs those things as high level processes.
Also, since the persmissions are so much different, how the user account works is drastically different. I can run a simplified user account under OS X, and anytime Admin, or root level access is needed it will prompt me for a password for an admin log in to verify. This also brings the user some awareness of what is going on. Users who execute anything and open email attachments are obvivously going to infect themselves reguardless of whatever platform they use. There is really no cure for that.
Assuming the super low amounts of reported infections I can only guess that it is downloaded, unzipped, then executed just like all the other "proof of virus" for OS X.
Now, limiting an account in windows is harder, because a lot of things require admin rights. We ran into this at my work a lot. So, every student logs in with their student ID, and they are logged in as an administrator in windows, but zen pushes out group policy/permissions to limit their access and power. This could also be acheived running windows AD, however not every normal user is going to set up an AD Domain in their house, well MS would love every user to for the money they would get from sales, but its not going to happen.
I am not saying windows has nothing better over OS X, I am just saying when it comes to viruses, malware, trojans, etc OS X has beat the crap out of windows in that area.
I will state this again for the record though, Apple does need to take some actions in their developement to plan for such things, because eventually one day it will happen.
Last edited:
tlarkin
VIP Member
Not always true, in the windows world viruses can be imbeded into files, so something that is suppose to be secure may in fact have a virus. users who run executeables and open attachments with no worry in the world are a security problem themselves. I agree with you though, people should get some sort of training somehow to learn these basic things to protect themselves.
Hackers are always trying something. That's nothing new. Someone needed something to report on apparently.
Run a simple web search sometime and you could be that then. Visit any new web sites lately? Trojan copied to drive! Did you open a file attached to an email from a friend lately? Oop! virus infected machine sends email to you. If you open the virus infected file attached to an email that came in you are now infected(unless by chance you were fortunate enough to be running an email scanner). And most "bugs" don't create registry values since they often simply hide in folders, infect other executables, or download another "bug".
Geoff
VIP Member
As others have said, you can have viruses embedded in images and other files, which may seem harmless. And not every AV software blocks 100% of all viruses, some will still get through.