Mac Pro vs other laptop

[tlarkin]

There is no such thing as a virus-invulnerable OS. And also by saying viruses, I meant to include trojans and the like.

Unrelated, but I could get into a very long debate about how overpriced Macs are, but meh. I'll leave that to everyone else.

Sorry but you are wrong. Try finding a virus that wildly infects any Unix based OS. You won't, because there is this thing called POSIX which is the fundamental set of permissions that the Unix based OSes operate off of (Linux, Unix, and OS X), which separate user access from the kernel via the shell. Users operate in their own cut off environment and cannot modify or add anything to the system level with out first inputting admin level credentials.

This design right here stops all virus attacks. A virus is something that self replicates, malware is not a virus. Just like a virus in real life, it is a self replicating series of cells that attack a person's body.

On the note of the Dell, I would never own one - ever. Having professionally supporting Dells at an old job I know first hand they use cheap crappy parts and build their systems to the lowest of quality to be able to slash their prices to maintain profits in sales. Gateways are also just as horrible. I cannot tell you how many thousands of Gateways and Dells failed while I worked at my previous job.

If I were to go out and buy a PC laptop today, I'd buy a high end Lenovo (their low end is pretty sucky), an Asus (probably my favorite), or at one point a HP business class. However, since HP announced they are no longer going to be making hardware, I would probably hold off on that one.

As for the Macs being over priced, again everyone fails to compare them spec for spec, material for material and so forth. They are aluminum, they use high quality parts, they use really high quality screens (pull the OEM number off one of their screens and google it, you'll find they are in fact the most expensive out there) they also standardize technology among all their laptops and include features like:

ABGN wireless
Blue Tooth
multitouch trackpad
backlit keyboard
FW800
Thunderbolt
HDMI
optical audio (not really needed if you are using HDMI, but still, it is there)
Sudden Motion Sensor
Not to mention the OS and bundled software.

Lion upgrade cost $29, and feature for feature is on par with Windows 7 Professional, yet Lion costs 10 times less.

In the end it is a preference because both a Mac and a PC are just tools, tools to get the job done. In some regards one may have bonuses over the other and vice versa, but a lot of that would be considered opinion and not fact. Macs and PCs both get a lot of ignorant hate from the uninformed for sure though, and when people pick sides and start spouting out misinformation about the product they blindly love/hate it makes me think of how absurd humans can be at times.

 

[Des_Zac]

Sorry but you are wrong. Try finding a virus that wildly infects any Unix based OS. You won't, because there is this thing called POSIX which is the fundamental set of permissions that the Unix based OSes operate off of (Linux, Unix, and OS X), which separate user access from the kernel via the shell. Users operate in their own cut off environment and cannot modify or add anything to the system level with out first inputting admin level credentials.

This design right here stops all virus attacks. A virus is something that self replicates, malware is not a virus. Just like a virus in real life, it is a self replicating series of cells that attack a person's body.

On the note of the Dell, I would never own one - ever. Having professionally supporting Dells at an old job I know first hand they use cheap crappy parts and build their systems to the lowest of quality to be able to slash their prices to maintain profits in sales. Gateways are also just as horrible. I cannot tell you how many thousands of Gateways and Dells failed while I worked at my previous job.

If I were to go out and buy a PC laptop today, I'd buy a high end Lenovo (their low end is pretty sucky), an Asus (probably my favorite), or at one point a HP business class. However, since HP announced they are no longer going to be making hardware, I would probably hold off on that one.

As for the Macs being over priced, again everyone fails to compare them spec for spec, material for material and so forth. They are aluminum, they use high quality parts, they use really high quality screens (pull the OEM number off one of their screens and google it, you'll find they are in fact the most expensive out there) they also standardize technology among all their laptops and include features like:

ABGN wireless
Blue Tooth
multitouch trackpad
backlit keyboard
FW800
Thunderbolt
HDMI
optical audio (not really needed if you are using HDMI, but still, it is there)
Sudden Motion Sensor
Not to mention the OS and bundled software.

Lion upgrade cost $29, and feature for feature is on par with Windows 7 Professional, yet Lion costs 10 times less.

In the end it is a preference because both a Mac and a PC are just tools, tools to get the job done. In some regards one may have bonuses over the other and vice versa, but a lot of that would be considered opinion and not fact. Macs and PCs both get a lot of ignorant hate from the uninformed for sure though, and when people pick sides and start spouting out misinformation about the product they blindly love/hate it makes me think of how absurd humans can be at times.

Thank you. This is exactly what I was trying to say, but your explanation is a lot less jumbled

 

[speedyink]

Still, unless I hit the lottery there is no way I would spend that much just for that touch screen attachment : / Plus it only has a 320 GB Hard drive, that could be better if I'm going to spend 2700 dollars on it.

Hard drives are cheap and easy to replace.

Plus it's only $300 more than the base 17" Macbook pro, so it's not a crazy amount of money.

 

[DMGrier]

Sorry but you are wrong. Try finding a virus that wildly infects any Unix based OS. You won't, because there is this thing called POSIX which is the fundamental set of permissions that the Unix based OSes operate off of (Linux, Unix, and OS X), which separate user access from the kernel via the shell. Users operate in their own cut off environment and cannot modify or add anything to the system level with out first inputting admin level credentials.

This design right here stops all virus attacks. A virus is something that self replicates, malware is not a virus. Just like a virus in real life, it is a self replicating series of cells that attack a person's body.

On the note of the Dell, I would never own one - ever. Having professionally supporting Dells at an old job I know first hand they use cheap crappy parts and build their systems to the lowest of quality to be able to slash their prices to maintain profits in sales. Gateways are also just as horrible. I cannot tell you how many thousands of Gateways and Dells failed while I worked at my previous job.

If I were to go out and buy a PC laptop today, I'd buy a high end Lenovo (their low end is pretty sucky), an Asus (probably my favorite), or at one point a HP business class. However, since HP announced they are no longer going to be making hardware, I would probably hold off on that one.

As for the Macs being over priced, again everyone fails to compare them spec for spec, material for material and so forth. They are aluminum, they use high quality parts, they use really high quality screens (pull the OEM number off one of their screens and google it, you'll find they are in fact the most expensive out there) they also standardize technology among all their laptops and include features like:

ABGN wireless
Blue Tooth
multitouch trackpad
backlit keyboard
FW800
Thunderbolt
HDMI
optical audio (not really needed if you are using HDMI, but still, it is there)
Sudden Motion Sensor
Not to mention the OS and bundled software.

Lion upgrade cost $29, and feature for feature is on par with Windows 7 Professional, yet Lion costs 10 times less.

In the end it is a preference because both a Mac and a PC are just tools, tools to get the job done. In some regards one may have bonuses over the other and vice versa, but a lot of that would be considered opinion and not fact. Macs and PCs both get a lot of ignorant hate from the uninformed for sure though, and when people pick sides and start spouting out misinformation about the product they blindly love/hate it makes me think of how absurd humans can be at times.

I will admit you are right about the Virus thing, I looked and they just do not exist for Unix based and Unix Like OS. Mac's do not have HDMI though, there is adapter you have to use which is a pain and as I said before on the discussion of gpu, unless you buy the $1800 Macbook Pro the gpu in the other models max is 720p with PC you can get 1080P and as I listed in that Dell link or even the system76 they do offer very nice screens that can display 1080p and they have the gpu and optical drive to actually use the screen. Plus what depicts quality? I know you hate Dell's but all Dell's I have owned last just as long as most Mac's so I see no real quality difference and we are talking about a majority of users that don't care and if they do that is why the PC is customizable.

In the End I post two laptops earlier one being Windows based and the other running Ubuntu and both smoke the Macbook pro in features, performance and price so the evidence is there,

PC, things Apple does not offer:
HDMI
VGA
Bluray
USB 3.0
3D Screens
Touch Screens
Lets not forget being able to go onto a manufactures web site and customize to your needs with hardware and even looks so your computer does not look like everyone out there as a Apple computers all look the same.

 

[mihir]

Lets not forget being able to go onto a manufactures web site and customize to your needs with hardware and even looks so your computer does not look like everyone out there as a Apple computers all look the same.

Apple does offer that, but it is expensive.

 

[Des_Zac]

Apple does offer that, but it is expensive.

It's pretty expensive no matter what website you go to, it's always cheaper to do it yourself, Apple just goes a little over the line is all.

 

[tlarkin]

I will admit you are right about the Virus thing, I looked and they just do not exist for Unix based and Unix Like OS. Mac's do not have HDMI though, there is adapter you have to use which is a pain and as I said before on the discussion of gpu, unless you buy the $1800 Macbook Pro the gpu in the other models max is 720p with PC you can get 1080P and as I listed in that Dell link or even the system76 they do offer very nice screens that can display 1080p and they have the gpu and optical drive to actually use the screen. Plus what depicts quality? I know you hate Dell's but all Dell's I have owned last just as long as most Mac's so I see no real quality difference and we are talking about a majority of users that don't care and if they do that is why the PC is customizable.

In the End I post two laptops earlier one being Windows based and the other running Ubuntu and both smoke the Macbook pro in features, performance and price so the evidence is there,

PC, things Apple does not offer:
HDMI
VGA
Bluray
USB 3.0
3D Screens
Touch Screens
Lets not forget being able to go onto a manufactures web site and customize to your needs with hardware and even looks so your computer does not look like everyone out there as a Apple computers all look the same.

What constitutes performance? What some tech writer publishes in some magazine? What some benchmark software score tells you? I hate using car analogies but here they work.

I can give you a basic 4 cylinder car, like a KIA. It will get you from point A to point B, drive 80MPH easily on the highway, get decent gas mileage and so forth. You can even upgrade and get the 6 cylinder KIA with all the bells and whistles, and it will still cost you around or under $20k for a new car. On the other hand you can instead buy a Subaru, which will have all wheel drive, a 4 cylinder engine, not every bell and whistle that the high end KIA goes, but at the end of the day we know the Subaru WRX is a highly engineered and better vehicle. It handles better, it is designed better, the suspension and wheel base and the AWD are all designed from the ground up with a concept of performance. The KIA, while not a bad car, and has a larger engine and can probably output more power. In fact if you look at the current 4cylinder turbo charged KIA Optima, it is a hell of a deal for under 20K brand new. Where as the Subaru WRX which actually has a smaller engine with a few less horse power is nearly 10K more once you add in the features.

A Mac is much like the Subaru. It is designed from the ground up. They design every aspect where PC manufactures have no say in what software companies develop for Operating Systems. They simply build hardware, this gives them less over head and more of a means to mass produce (meaning they are made cheaper) and therefore get to sell them cheaper. They also may have used some cheaper components in the KIA which also drive down the price, however the transmission is a 6 speed and the engine has more horse power than the WRX.

Now, I will definitely agree that Apple marks up their prices on standard basic hardware like RAM, hard drives, optical drives, etc. However, you can buy after market so that is really a moot point in my book. You can buy RAM kits off of newegg that work fine in Macs. I know, because I do it all the time, and yes it is way cheaper. That is just called being a smart consumer.

Now to address your list:

PC, things Apple does not offer:
HDMI - wrong, they offer full HMDI via mini display adapter

VGA - Again, wrong, mini display adapter can output to any video format

Bluray - This you got me on, but I don't think that is a deal breaker for me, plus everything is going streaming and downloads anyway, optical media will be obsolete soon. Apple knows this, look at the ITMS and App store

USB 3.0 - Look at thunderbolt, it supports everything new Macs have it

3D Screens - Meh, 3D screens most likely do not live up to Apple's standards yet to even be considered. I saw a ton at best buy when I bought my new TV and they all sucked

Touch Screens - You want a touch screen buy an iOS device, which works perfectly in conjunction with your Mac


So, in conclusion we must realize as humans who can logically think and look past the marketing schemes and hype put in front of us, deep down inside and under the hood is where the real performance takes place. Your hardware can only run as fast as your software lets you, poorly coded software and software bloat will destroy resources. When looking at laptops Apple is huge on portability, that is why their batteries last forever. You will be hard pressed to find a laptop with those specs, that design, weigh that much and be that thin and get that much battery life.

Just because some benchmark scores says your computer is awesome doesn't mean it will out perform other computers in real world application. Things like video cards really don't do much for the end user unless they are doing a few select things like: Rendering audio/video, playing high end video games at high end settings, or using heavy 3D applications. Gaming cards give pretty much nil performance for rendering over a good workstation card does anyway, and of course a work station card sucks at playing video games.

Just remember they are all tools, tools to get whatever job you want to get done. I am a long time Mac/PC user and I still use both.

 

[tlarkin]

home premium will limit how much ram you can stuff in it to 16 gigs...if you want more than that, you need professional or better.

This is a good point when you look at much Microsoft feature limits their OSes. A copy of the newest OS for a Mac is $29, that is it. Feature for Feature is is comparable and in many ways has more features than Windows 7 Ultimate which is $300 plus, so it is 10 times the cost.

OS X also has a much less of a finger print, takes up way less HD space, and uses less CPU/RAM to run. So, if you want to compare any PC with a Mac you will have to upgrade to Windows 7 Ultimate.

 

[paulcheung]

Sorry but you are wrong. Try finding a virus that wildly infects any Unix based OS. You won't, because there is this thing called POSIX which is the fundamental set of permissions that the Unix based OSes operate off of (Linux, Unix, and OS X), which separate user access from the kernel via the shell. Users operate in their own cut off environment and cannot modify or add anything to the system level with out first inputting admin level credentials.

This design right here stops all virus attacks. A virus is something that self replicates, malware is not a virus. Just like a virus in real life, it is a self replicating series of cells that attack a person's body.

On the note of the Dell, I would never own one - ever. Having professionally supporting Dells at an old job I know first hand they use cheap crappy parts and build their systems to the lowest of quality to be able to slash their prices to maintain profits in sales. Gateways are also just as horrible. I cannot tell you how many thousands of Gateways and Dells failed while I worked at my previous job.

If I were to go out and buy a PC laptop today, I'd buy a high end Lenovo (their low end is pretty sucky), an Asus (probably my favorite), or at one point a HP business class. However, since HP announced they are no longer going to be making hardware, I would probably hold off on that one.

As for the Macs being over priced, again everyone fails to compare them spec for spec, material for material and so forth. They are aluminum, they use high quality parts, they use really high quality screens (pull the OEM number off one of their screens and google it, you'll find they are in fact the most expensive out there) they also standardize technology among all their laptops and include features like:

ABGN wireless
Blue Tooth
multitouch trackpad
backlit keyboard
FW800
Thunderbolt
HDMI
optical audio (not really needed if you are using HDMI, but still, it is there)
Sudden Motion Sensor
Not to mention the OS and bundled software.

Lion upgrade cost $29, and feature for feature is on par with Windows 7 Professional, yet Lion costs 10 times less.

In the end it is a preference because both a Mac and a PC are just tools, tools to get the job done. In some regards one may have bonuses over the other and vice versa, but a lot of that would be considered opinion and not fact. Macs and PCs both get a lot of ignorant hate from the uninformed for sure though, and when people pick sides and start spouting out misinformation about the product they blindly love/hate it makes me think of how absurd humans can be at times.

You have some good points here, but like in my position, I have a little over $1500 in my account and I can get that Asus laptop for $1199 and $134 for a ssd to add to the system. I don't think this laptop will be slower than any of the Mac Pro out there.
With the money I saved on the hardware I can buy the Win7 Ultimate if I want. But hey Who really want more than 16gb Ram in a laptop? What is it good for?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834230099
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148447
Cheers.

 

[DMGrier]

You are right, you can ouput through adapters but as a PC I don't deal with adapters I just use the cable that was intended, as a apple user would say it just works. Plus do not dismiss touch and 3D screens cause I have met people who want or use them. Thunderbolt is nice but most devices I see do not mention compatibility with thunderbolt so USB 3.0 seems like the smarter move. All I am saying is you name your features I will name mine, Apple has a limited hardware support since they manufacture there computers and if you google it a lot of Apple users want the features I list.

tlarkin, I mean this with the up most respect but you are not aloud to use car concepts anymore cause that was horrible cause KIA and Subaru is just a bad comparison cause I think a better concept is a BMW vs a Mustang but that is just me but I am a huge car person.

Either way where I am going is OSX is nice but the computers are and are not over priced, They are because 95% of there users do not use all the features they have that make them expensive where as a PC can be more tailored to a individual needs for the price since you can go to a web site and pick what hardware and quality of screen and sometimes even pick the color or graphic on it. Plus many laptops these days will last 4-5 years if not more and by this point you should be replacing anyway.

Also earlier I see the Aluminum was brought up again, plastic cools better. The people who design car engines get paid way more then the loser who designs apples shells and many things on the engines these day are being replaced with plastic like the intake manifold cause it stays cooler then aluminum there for delivering a cooler charge to the engine creating more power, better gas and better emission.

 

[tlarkin]

You have some good points here, but like in my position, I have a little over $1500 in my account and I can get that Asus laptop for $1199 and $134 for a ssd to add to the system. I don't think this laptop will be slower than any of the Mac Pro out there.
With the money I saved on the hardware I can buy the Win7 Ultimate if I want. But hey Who really want more than 16gb Ram in a laptop? What is it good for?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834230099
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148447
Cheers.

Windows 7 features that are only in the Ultimate edition

*remote desktop
*encrypted file system support
*ability to bind to a domain controller
*Windows XP mode

These features really break to deal for you? Probably not, but you won't be able to bind to active directory if you try to take it to work or college, and that means you won't be able to log into your school/work profile.

Not everyone can afford the Subaru over the KIA, but given the choice and money was not an obstacle most people would probably pick the Subaru over the KIA.

That Asus is a great deal and it will perform on par with the Macbook Pro, but it won't drive the same. Just like the turbo charged KIA optima will perform on par against a Subaru WRX in most basic things, but the WRX is a better drive once you use it's features. By all means, the KIA optima is actually a great car for the price to be honest. It has a great warranty and consumer reports say they are reliable cars.

If you want the best bang for your buck, a PC is most likely the way to go, or the lower end Macbooks. However, cost should be looked at the cost of overall ownership. Macs hold their resell value, which is unheard of for technology. If you replace your Mac every two to three years and sell your old one you are only looking at several hundred dollars out of pocket to upgrade your laptop.

The high end 2009 Macbook Pro sells for approximately 1500 bucks used. Show me a 2 year old PC laptop in that range keep that sort of resell value.

Overall cost of ownerships, macs are actually pretty well priced once you consider everything. Like I said though, it is just a tool and some people prefer brand hammer X versus brand hammer Y, and at the end of the day both hammers can nail down nails.

 

[paulcheung]

Windows 7 features that are only in the Ultimate edition

*remote desktop
*encrypted file system support
*ability to bind to a domain controller
*Windows XP mode

These features really break to deal for you? Probably not, but you won't be able to bind to active directory if you try to take it to work or college, and that means you won't be able to log into your school/work profile.

Not everyone can afford the Subaru over the KIA, but given the choice and money was not an obstacle most people would probably pick the Subaru over the KIA.

That Asus is a great deal and it will perform on par with the Macbook Pro, but it won't drive the same. Just like the turbo charged KIA optima will perform on par against a Subaru WRX in most basic things, but the WRX is a better drive once you use it's features. By all means, the KIA optima is actually a great car for the price to be honest. It has a great warranty and consumer reports say they are reliable cars.

If you want the best bang for your buck, a PC is most likely the way to go, or the lower end Macbooks. However, cost should be looked at the cost of overall ownership. Macs hold their resell value, which is unheard of for technology. If you replace your Mac every two to three years and sell your old one you are only looking at several hundred dollars out of pocket to upgrade your laptop.

The high end 2009 Macbook Pro sells for approximately 1500 bucks used. Show me a 2 year old PC laptop in that range keep that sort of resell value.

Overall cost of ownerships, macs are actually pretty well priced once you consider everything. Like I said though, it is just a tool and some people prefer brand hammer X versus brand hammer Y, and at the end of the day both hammers can nail down nails.

If I need to connect to active Directory then I will get the Ultimate, but most people don't.
Also you seem have a point of resell value, but deeply look down that is not a point at all. the resell value on the PC is already there from the begining! I didn't paid for it at all! I am pretty sure if I want to sell back this laptop in 2 year time I might still can sell it for $500 Dollars. when you paid the MacBook Pro for $2500 or more that when you resell it back for $1500, it still cost you $1000 or more.
The PC only cost $700 for the two year. The comparission with the car is not right. The PC does not work like a KIA and the Mac Book Pro does not work Like SUbaru. My son have a Mac book that he can't play games at all. but the PC does. I am sure the Mac book Pro can play Games but it won't beat the PC like European Car compare to Korean cars. You forgot one thing, They are use the same engine that built by INTEL!!

Cheers

 

[tlarkin]

If I need to connect to active Directory then I will get the Ultimate, but most people don't.
Also you seem have a point of resell value, but deeply look down that is not a point at all. the resell value on the PC is already there from the begining! I didn't paid for it at all! I am pretty sure if I want to sell back this laptop in 2 year time I might still can sell it for $500 Dollars. when you paid the MacBook Pro for $2500 or more that when you resell it back for $1500, it still cost you $1000 or more.
The PC only cost $700 for the two year. The comparission with the car is not right. The PC does not work like a KIA and the Mac Book Pro does not work Like SUbaru. My son have a Mac book that he can't play games at all. but the PC does. I am sure the Mac book Pro can play Games but it won't beat the PC like European Car compare to Korean cars. You forgot one thing, They are use the same engine that built by INTEL!!

Cheers

Believe it or not KIA get great reviews. If you ever listen to the car talk guys on NPR (and they are some super smart car guys) they give KIA great reviews. That was what first led me onto the fact they are decent cars, but that is side tracked.

A PC laptop isn't worth much once it is 3+ years old at all. Macs hold some resell value, 1500 on a 3 year old 2400 MBP would be the lowest you could get. You could probably get close to 2k for it. Especially if selling to a country where Macs aren't readily available. That is why used iPhone 3GS still sell for $400 to people in Russia. I sold my 6 year old G4 MDD for $700 when I sold it. It was $2k and 6 years old and I sold it for $700 6 years later. That is a pretty dang good resell value on electronics.

On a side note, a lot of European cars are crap. I have owned three personally and my family has owned dozens. My father used to get a new benz every year when he owned his own company (company car). Don't get me wrong, some of their cars are great, but the ones that are affordable to the average person are crap.

Also, for me video games are something I would never desire to play on a laptop. I have a desktop for that. My laptop is a pure work machine. I need to take notes, write code, do emails, manage systems remotely and I need to be on the go, so it has to have a good battery life. For my job, the Macbook Pro is worth a ton more than any PC period, and the productivity on it is a lot greater. Like I said, right tool for the right job.

If you want to just play games and that is the staple of performance for you, then you need to buy a PC.

 

[paulcheung]

Also, for me video games are something I would never desire to play on a laptop. I have a desktop for that. My laptop is a pure work machine. I need to take notes, write code, do emails, manage systems remotely and I need to be on the go, so it has to have a good battery life. For my job, the Macbook Pro is worth a ton more than any PC period, and the productivity on it is a lot greater. Like I said, right tool for the right job.If you want to just play games and that is the staple of performance for you, then you need to buy a PC.

Well said, That is exactly my point, why spend so much more and the PC laptop just do the job for me and most people and more!!
cheers

 

[tlarkin]

Well said, That is exactly my point, why spend so much more and the PC laptop just do the job for me and most people and more!!
cheers

Well I bought the Subaru over the KIA and it was about a 10K difference and I am 100% satisfied with my purchase.

If you want a PC then get a PC. I am not disagreeing with you at all. I am just saying Macs, for everything you get with them are pretty well priced.

 

[DMGrier]

Well I bought the Subaru over the KIA and it was about a 10K difference and I am 100% satisfied with my purchase.

If you want a PC then get a PC. I am not disagreeing with you at all. I am just saying Macs, for everything you get with them are pretty well priced.

and I am not disagreeing with you, what I am not saying is if you do not use the features then the Mac is over priced. I cheaper PC running Windows or Linux (depending on distro) will be good for the end user. What ever makes the buyer happy I guess.

I am glad you bought the Subaru over the Kia, unless Kia is buying the engine from a different manufacture Kia engines use very low end Metal for there blocks and there head or heads depending on the motor are pron to rebuild at around 100k.

 

[Perkomate]

ok, ok. Let me just say this.

Why don't you buy a Windows laptop....

And then get a $30 copy of a Mac OS and put it on it. You get pretty much the best of both worlds.

 

[speedyink]

OS X also has a much less of a finger print, takes up way less HD space, and uses less CPU/RAM to run.

I don't know if this is true anymore with the release of Lion. The minimum requirements are double that of Windows 7 and soon to be Windows 8. I can also feel it while using Lion on my macbook, core 2 duo and 2gb of ram. Feels less than snappy, and the cpu fan winds up much more than before, on stupid tasks like opening a video or browsing around the file system while listening to music.

Sorry, don't mean to butt in, just saying.

 

[tlarkin]

ok, ok. Let me just say this.

Why don't you buy a Windows laptop....

And then get a $30 copy of a Mac OS and put it on it. You get pretty much the best of both worlds.

Then you are tossing the whole, it just works out the window. Hacking around the TPM to install OS X on non Apple hardware is going to have it's issues. Also, drivers will too, and Macs use EFI firmware and not BIOS.

I don't know if this is true anymore with the release of Lion. The minimum requirements are double that of Windows 7 and soon to be Windows 8. I can also feel it while using Lion on my macbook, core 2 duo and 2gb of ram. Feels less than snappy, and the cpu fan winds up much more than before, on stupid tasks like opening a video or browsing around the file system while listening to music.

Sorry, don't mean to butt in, just saying.

The system requirements are still less, and OS X 10.7 takes up a lot less HD space. However, I honestly haven't messed with Lion all that much. I have a copy I got via the store but haven't had time to play with it. Plus, in my experience with OS X is that I never upgrade until the .3 or .4 upgrade comes along. So, when 10.7.3 comes out I will probably look at upgrading.

 

[DMGrier]

I don't know if this is true anymore with the release of Lion. The minimum requirements are double that of Windows 7 and soon to be Windows 8. I can also feel it while using Lion on my macbook, core 2 duo and 2gb of ram. Feels less than snappy, and the cpu fan winds up much more than before, on stupid tasks like opening a video or browsing around the file system while listening to music.

Sorry, don't mean to butt in, just saying.

I can't believe how much Lion requires to run anymore, it is like the bulk issue we experience of Vista and I do not see any features worth the need of 2GB of memory that I see on it.

On the note of buying a PC and installing OSX it is pretty much impossible due to the fact of lack of hardware support since Apple only uses only certain hardware example being if you buy a Asus running a Nvidia 540m GTX there is no such driver for that. Plus we use different things like the kind of wifi cards and so on. There are select models that have been able to run OSX, one I know is the Dell mini 9 and if I am correct no PC can run past 10.5.