Need Feedback On Self Build Vs. Special Build

[Jesusgetstheglory777333]

I am about to get a new computer for MUSIC and MOVIE creation and was wondering what you thought about what specs I would need and how to get the best out of my money. I'm going to be spending around $5,000 and I need something that will be able to put out quality material in video and audio. I know I will be running Sonar 5, using a midi controller, and that stuff will be easily decided but the workstation is a bit confusing.
My main question is about a site like this...

http://www.pcaudiolabs.com/

A high end desktop on here with 3 gigs of RAM, 4 harddrives like a terrabyte of memory, and all the fixings including sound dampening and everything put together is about 5,000 total.

But, I looked at for example the athalon 4800+ X2 and its 840 something instead of 640 something that you can price grab online

So is the extra cash invested in worth all the tweaking they do to the system to make it a multimedia beast?

I know PC is the way to go concerning price and power, and also upgrading later, i was thinking of apple but a G5 seems a bit overpriced for what the power specs are thanks for giving your input.

 

[34erd]

Building is definetly cheaper, and the quality will be the same if not better. All the tweaking they do doesnt really look like anything special, you can do it all yourself.

 

[Bobo]

So is the extra cash invested in worth all the tweaking they do to the system to make it a multimedia beast?

No. Period. Exclamation point.

Building it yourself will always be cheaper, because the builders at the plant get like a lot of money (well they might not get that much, but they charge a lot) and the company charges a lot just for the sake of having the company name on the case.

Give us the specs of that computer, and I bet we could build the same thing for $3500-$4000

 

[BigBrains57]

yeah, build it yourself or have some one build one for you (hint hint), the tweaks are nice but i don't think its anything you cant do

 

[computermaineack]

If you're doing video and music editing, Mac usually is the best way to go. But, you said you felt they were overpriced, so I guess it's your choice. It's just that Macs are designed more for multimedia stuff and less gaming, etc.

If you're going to get a PC, an Intel dual core processor would probably be better for you. AMD's are more for gaming- Intel's more for multitasking and running intense programs, such as video editing, just like you'll be doing.

This processor would prob be excellent for you:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819116248

It's a little pricey, but it has dual core, has hyper-threading, and has 64-bit support. Perfect for you.

As for cost, build it yourself. You will save a TON of money. A $5000 computer pre-built you can probably build for around $4000-$4500. It's absurd how much they charge just to put it together. You can buy 4gb (so you can do dual-channel, of course) of good DDR memory for about $300 (4x1gb). You can get a Western Digital Caviar hard drive (500gb) for about $270, multiplied by 2 (to get 1tb) is $540 ($1.85/gb, btw).

So with the processor I gave you, the ram and the hard drives, you have about $2000. That leaves you $3000 to spend on a really good sound card, video card, etc.

Hope I could help.

EDIT: If you're going with Intel, you'd prob get DDR2 mem...I don't know how much more that would cost.

Edit: I'd also suggest this mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813131534
It will support the above processor, it will support 8gb dual channel DDR2-800 ram, has great OC'ing ability, everything you need. Especially, a firewire port for connecting things like cameras.

 

[ceewi1]

If you're going to get a PC, an Intel dual core processor would probably be better for you. AMD's are more for gaming- Intel's more for multitasking and running intense programs, such as video editing, just like you'll be doing.

With this sort of budget i'd be looking at a Dual - Dual Core Opteron solution, rather than a single CPU.

 

[Bobo]

OK, here is what I would start with.

ASUS K8N-DL
AMD Dual-Core Opteron 280
Corsair XMS 2GB
Antec Titan550 Case
Maxtor Diamondmax SATA II 500GB
WD Raptor 74GB 10000RPM
MSI Geforce 7900GTX
CD/DVD burner with Lightscribe
That's your basic system setup. Get 2 processors, 2 of the ram sets listed, 2 500GB harddrives, 2 CD/DVD burners, and it comes to $3862. Do the rebates and it is $3780 , leaving you $1200 for other stuff.

This is one kick butt system. The only thing is that if you want all 4 cores running, you need to flash the BIOS on the motherboard, which isn't hard at all.

The case isn't great, but your choices are limited with an extended ATX motherboard.

OK, I went to that site, and building roughly the same thing (with a horrible video card and an 80GB EIDE instead of the raptor, and also CD/DVD drives without Lightscribe) I got $5500. So I think that you can see the difference. Do you want to spend $1800 more just for something like audio dampening?

 

[Jesusgetstheglory777333]

Thank You All Very Much

Alright that helps a lot, I have a few more questions here. So all the tweaks sound dampening etc., I know someone who can do this up for me I'm sure, so give me some info on what to buy to make the computer run at the right quietness and temp. and what materials for that.

Also, what is Lightscribe, and whats the difference between the pcaudiolab dvd burners with and without that?

Also what is the Raid harddrive system?

I will be saving samples, finished music tracks, movie clips and finished movies, and also a main harddrive for programs

Does 4 separate harddrives really make any difference or just 2 big 500 gig harddrives do the exact same thing?
I know that the Raid system splits up the drives into sections to stream data more efficiently but I don't think I need to overdo it in that way.
REally I will just be using a midi keyboard, a beat pad device like this

http://www.platinum-records.com/akai-mpd-24-usb-midi-controller-interface-prod7569.htm

and im pretty sure ill be getting this as my main audio sound input device

http://www.etcetera.co.uk/products/EMU055.shtml

This plugs straight into the motherboard as the sound card right? With all audio mixing going through this on the desktop?

and this as my DAW

http://aes.harmony-central.com/119AES/Content/Cakewalk/PR/SONAR-5-Producer-Edition.html


I have a bunch of old video footage on VHS that I want to plug in and cut and paste and also get a new firewire digital camera for new stuff.

That video card you put up on the last post seems pretty high end, does that really effect the video productions i would be making?

Thanks a lot the last posts were really helpful especially since it helps me understand how much cash ill be saving

 

[Bobo]

Alright that helps a lot, I have a few more questions here. So all the tweaks sound dampening etc., I know someone who can do this up for me I'm sure, so give me some info on what to buy to make the computer run at the right quietness and temp. and what materials for that.

Well i have never seen sound dampening on a computer, do you really need it?

Also, what is Lightscribe, and whats the difference between the pcaudiolab dvd burners with and without that?

Lightscribe burns an image onto the opposite side of a CD/DVD.

Also what is the Raid harddrive system?

There are many different types of RAID

I will be saving samples, finished music tracks, movie clips and finished movies, and also a main harddrive for programs

That is why I have the 74GB raptor on there, it would be your system/programs drive, and load windows very fast because it is 10000rpm (as opposed to the standard 7200rpm)

Does 4 separate harddrives really make any difference or just 2 big 500 gig harddrives do the exact same thing?
I know that the Raid system splits up the drives into sections to stream data more efficiently but I don't think I need to overdo it in that way.

Well you can have different kinds of RAID, either to increase performance like you said, or to have a backup copy of the data in case one drive fails.

REally I will just be using a midi keyboard, a beat pad device like this

http://www.platinum-records.com/akai-mpd-24-usb-midi-controller-interface-prod7569.htm

and im pretty sure ill be getting this as my main audio sound input device

http://www.etcetera.co.uk/products/EMU055.shtml

This plugs straight into the motherboard as the sound card right? With all audio mixing going through this on the desktop?

The MIDI mixer plugs in to the computer via USB, and the audio input device is a PCI card, it goes directly in the computer. You can either use that card as your sound card, or the motherboard has integrated 7.1 channel sound (I don't know why you would use integrated...but whatever)

and this as my DAW

http://aes.harmony-central.com/119AES/Content/Cakewalk/PR/SONAR-5-Producer-Edition.html

DAW?
I presume that you mean Digital Audio Workstation?

Is Sonar 5 a software program?

I have a bunch of old video footage on VHS that I want to plug in and cut and paste and also get a new firewire digital camera for new stuff.

You need a video capture device to be able to put VHS tapes on your computer. The camcorder will connect via firewire, but the VHS cannot.

That video card you put up on the last post seems pretty high end, does that really effect the video productions i would be making?

No, you don't need something that high end. But with a $5000 budget, you can get pretty much anything you want, I just picked something that will not be outdated for a long time. I could build a system that would be more than adequate for $3000. I don't think that you need 4 core opterons, but if you are willing to spend that much money, they will serve you quite well.

*edit* It seems that you want to downgrade a little bit. You don't really need dual dual core optys, or a 7900gtx, but with your budget, I just said what the heck. However, it seems to me that you will be doing quite a bit of video stuff in addition to the audio work. Give me a little bit and I will build you a new system.

 

[Bobo]

Ok, new motherboard.

TYAN S2895A2NRF SSI EEB
AMD Dual-Core Opteron 280
Corsair XMS 2GB
Antec Titan550 Case
Maxtor Diamondmax SATA II 500GB
WD Raptor 74GB 10000RPM
CD/DVD burner with Lightscribe
I kept the rest of the stuff except the video card, which I think that SLI is definitely an option here.
so you could get 2x of these:
BFG Geforce 7800GT
in SLI.

This would bring the total up to around $4100, leaving you $900 for the audio equipment.

Do you live in the US? Because if not, these prices are all worthless. Newegg only ships to the US.

I need you to tell me exactly how much money you can spend on just computer (not including the audio stuff you listed before) how much you would like to spend, and everything that you will be doing with it.

And I would also like someone else's opinion on these parts, because I think that the processors might be a little above the other parts.

 

[Jesusgetstheglory777333]

ok thanks a lot.
1. I wont be using internet with this computer to avoid viruses, so i wont be chatting, downloading, and recording and burning, watching a video at the same time.

2. For my video work I will be doing for example: A vhs video of my friend doing something silly like dancing around with a hat on. Cut out the image of the video and paste it on a sidewalk, cut an image of a flame and put it on his head, and move the image up and down the sidewalk, with the original audio and other audio clips cutting in and out. Basically audio and video collages of random stuff going very fast.

3. I definately want 2 lightscribe burners because of that imaging power very important.

4. I want to spend about 3000-3500 on the basic computer, and 1500 on monitor, speakers, and sound hardware.

5. I was thinking about an athlon 4800+, and 4 gigs of ram, but I'm not sure if ill need all that ram or cpu with what I will be doing. The audio video collage isnt going to be Hollywood pretty, I like it to be a bit lo-fi, but also have the option of going quality with things as I upgrade video camera etc.

6. I see a cheap 350 dollar video camera that has firewire and also analog/digital converstion built in, so i probably can just go vhs to camera to firewire without worrying about another program.

7. I will be going over this many times before the final purchase and I really appreciate your input, would like some input on monitor also.

8. Would the 10,000 rpm drive really help with video and audio collages a lot?
I know all the programs im going to be getting initially will easily fit on 74 gigs but if possible i would go with 7400 rpm and higher memory for the space if the rpm is not needed.

9. Sonar 5 is software yes, it records audio and from what it says has a powerful video editor built in to sync things together.

thanks

 

[Bobo]

1. I wont be using internet with this computer to avoid viruses, so i wont be chatting, downloading, and recording and burning, watching a video at the same time.

Just so you know, it really isn't that hard to keep virii out. I don't have a firewall, or any antivirus/antispyware stuff on this computer, and I have never gotten a virus. You just need to know what you are doing on the internet.

2. For my video work I will be doing for example: A vhs video of my friend doing something silly like dancing around with a hat on. Cut out the image of the video and paste it on a sidewalk, cut an image of a flame and put it on his head, and move the image up and down the sidewalk, with the original audio and other audio clips cutting in and out. Basically audio and video collages of random stuff going very fast.

Ok, so nothing really intensive.

3. I definately want 2 lightscribe burners because of that imaging power very important.

Well the imaging is very slow, generally takes about an hour per disc for high quality. Google for some images, and you will see what it looks like. 2 CD/DVD drives is also very useful for copying, I have 2 drives and I can copy a CD in less than 5 minutes.

4. I want to spend about 3000-3500 on the basic computer, and 1500 on monitor, speakers, and sound hardware.

Ahhhh....ok, I thought you were spending $5000 on just the computer. My bad.

5. I was thinking about an athlon 4800+, and 4 gigs of ram,

Now that I have a better idea of what you are doing, that is what I am leaning towards too.

but I'm not sure if ill need all that ram or cpu with what I will be doing.

For $3000, I don't see how you could not get it.

6. I see a cheap 350 dollar video camera that has firewire and also analog/digital converstion built in, so i probably can just go vhs to camera to firewire without worrying about another program.

Save a couple hundred off your computer, and buy a hard drive video camera. MiniDV is crap, and DVDs are hard to edit. Hard drive video cameras are the newest, and the best, but they run around $700-$1000

7. I will be going over this many times before the final purchase and I really appreciate your input, would like some input on monitor also.

For a monitor I would say at least a 19" flatscreen. I'll build the comp up first, and see what a good monitor would be.

8. Would the 10,000 rpm drive really help with video and audio collages a lot?
I know all the programs im going to be getting initially will easily fit on 74 gigs but if possible i would go with 7400 rpm and higher memory for the space if the rpm is not needed.

If all the programs will easily fit on the 74GB hard drive, then why would you need more space? The way that i had it built, that hard drive is just for Windows and the programs. It will speed up boot times and program load times. The 500GB hard drives would be where you are storing stuff. How much space do you need, and do you want RAID?

I'm building your computer now, just leaving the hard drives out before I see what you really need/want.

 

[Bobo]

Motherboard:
Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe--$225
DFI Lanparty UT nF4 SLI-DR--$178
The first one is an exceptionally good motherboard with 16x SLI, which gives incredibly performance in everything, but it has a strange layout and runs hot. The second board is a Lanparty board. I know you won't be going to lanparties, but it is a rock solid board, DFI is very good quality.

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800--$632
Pretty self-explanatory

RAM:
Corsair XMS 2GB--$188
Very good RAM, Corsair is one of the best. Get 2 of those for 4GB.

Graphics Card:
XFX Geforce 7900GT
Get them in SLI (two cards) and you have a great setup.

Case:
Thermaltake Armour Series--$150
This is mainly a matter of preference and looks. If you don't like that case, find one that you do like, it really doesn't matter that much. However, that case is a very good one.

PSU:
Antec Truepower II--$90
Dual 12V rails, 19A each

Optical:
CD/DVD burner with Lightscribe--$40
Same ones I had before

HDDs:
Maxtor Diamondmax SATA II 500GB--$295
WD Raptor 74GB 10000RPM--$160
Also the same, but I need you to tell me how much space you need, and if you want the raptor or not.

So, if you get the 2 500GB hard drives and the 2 graphics cards, it comes to about $2900. I think that you would be better off with the second motherboard that i listed, because the first one seems to run pretty hot. So subtract that, and it is only $2850.

So here are some accessories that you would serve you well:
TV Tuner--$90
You will need this to put VHS movies on your computer

OS:
Microsoft Windows Media Center 2005--$115
Media Center is much more tailored to your needs than XP pro or home.

So add those accessories on, and it is just over $3000.

However, if you are not in the United States, these prices are useless. Where do you live?

 

[Jesusgetstheglory777333]

yep im from the USA ogilvie Minnesota to be exact. Ya your totally right that 10,000 rpm will really help a lot. I just looked at Sonar 5 and it only takes up 100 MB of space, and minimum ram is 128 megabytes. I should be able to really cook on that thing with a jacked up computer.

Ok so Lightscribing a disk does take a long time. I thought it was just as fast as burning a cd a few minutes. That would be awsome.

Why 2 video cards?

Harddrive Video Camera I'll look into that.

Won't I be needing some sort of fans and dampening for cooling, and does the power supply effect any sort of temp or sound?

About Raid, I won't probably need it I don't think. The thing is that I would be running software plug ins, and samples, and software instruments, and I've heard that when you stream samples or software stuff from the same drive as you save video or audio files, it can slow it down a lot. So Raid would solve that but I really dont know if its important or not.

thanks

 

[Bobo]

yep im from the USA ogilvie Minnesota to be exact. Ya your totally right that 10,000 rpm will really help a lot. I just looked at Sonar 5 and it only takes up 100 MB of space, and minimum ram is 128 megabytes. I should be able to really cook on that thing with a jacked up computer.

That's why I put it on there.

Ok so Lightscribing a disk does take a long time. I thought it was just as fast as burning a cd a few minutes. That would be awsome.

Well burning the CD will only take a few minutes, but yes, lightscribing takes a long time.

Why 2 video cards?

It increases performance quite a lot, and your budget can easily handle it. It is not needed at all, just something nice that you can have with a $3000 computer

Harddrive Video Camera I'll look into that.

Check out this link.

Won't I be needing some sort of fans and dampening for cooling, and does the power supply effect any sort of temp or sound?

Yes, you will probably want fans, but you had spoken of sound dampening. How quiet do you need this to be? Because you can get fanless PSUs, video cards, etc. if you need it to be really quiet. The case comes with 2 fans, the CPU comes with a fan, and the PSU has a fan.

About Raid, I won't probably need it I don't think. The thing is that I would be running software plug ins, and samples, and software instruments, and I've heard that when you stream samples or software stuff from the same drive as you save video or audio files, it can slow it down a lot. So Raid would solve that but I really dont know if its important or not.

It really isn't that necessary. Do you need both 500GB hard drives or just one?

Ok, so a few questions.

1. I made an SLI (2 video card) setup, because it easily fit into your budget. You won't notice a whole lot of difference without it, so do you want to save the money?
2. Do you need 500GB or 1TB of storage space?
3. How quiet does this computer need to be?
4. How is this computer being built? It really isn't that hard to build it yourself, but some people are a bit scared of doing so.

 

[Jesusgetstheglory777333]

I made an SLI (2 video card) setup, because it easily fit into your budget. You won't notice a whole lot of difference without it, so do you want to save the money?

If it increases the performance I definately will want it just to keep things smooth.

Do you need 500GB or 1TB of storage space?

I probably will want 1TB just to keep pumping out material and saving it for a long period of time without worrying about space.

How quiet does this computer need to be?

Well, like for example I have a like 300 mhz pentium 2 that i use for online right now, and I have recorded some material with it with an ok sound quality, but when I use beat programs or record music on here I notice a harsh digital sound that really makes the sound annoying and harsh to my ears. I think it maybe latency because recently I did the same program on my friend's computer that is even more old and it clicked and popped all over the place, its similar to what im getting just a lot more profound in the music.
So really I dont think its computer noise, although there is a hum on this thing that is pretty annoying. I know that new stuff wont have that problem most likely.

http://www.myspace.com/lovegift

here is some of the music I made on this thing pretty much a huge joke but thats the stuff i like

How is this computer being built? It really isn't that hard to build it yourself, but some people are a bit scared of doing so.

I know someone who knows someone who is a Born Again Christian computer tweak and Im a Christian also, so I believe this guy can put it together for me. He used to make viruses and really do some wierd stuff but found Jesus and now builds computers for people so I am going to go over this info with him after I get the money which should be within the next month or two for sure, and get the parts etc. I know he has enough experience in it to help with sound dampening etc. if thats even needed which it probably wont end up being needed anyway. I can spend a lot more on this thing but I'm trying to be efficient and not just blow money on memory etc. that I really wont be depending on anyway. So you are helping narrow things down a lot I really appreciate it.

 

[Bobo]

If it increases the performance I definately will want it just to keep things smooth.

Well what you could do is get the motherboard, and just one graphics card, and then upgrade later.

I probably will want 1TB just to keep pumping out material and saving it for a long period of time without worrying about space.

gotcha

Well, like for example I have a like 300 mhz pentium 2 that i use for online right now, and I have recorded some material with it with an ok sound quality, but when I use beat programs or record music on here I notice a harsh digital sound that really makes the sound annoying and harsh to my ears. I think it maybe latency because recently I did the same program on my friend's computer that is even more old and it clicked and popped all over the place, its similar to what im getting just a lot more profound in the music.
So really I dont think its computer noise, although there is a hum on this thing that is pretty annoying. I know that new stuff wont have that problem most likely.

http://www.myspace.com/lovegift

here is some of the music I made on this thing pretty much a huge joke but thats the stuff i like

Well my desktop is almost silent, way quieter than my laptop, I can barely hear it with 4 fans, 2 hard drives, and 2 optical drives. Newer computers are much much quieter than old ones, because of better fan technology.

I know someone who knows someone who is a Born Again Christian computer tweak and Im a Christian also, so I believe this guy can put it together for me. He used to make viruses and really do some wierd stuff but found Jesus and now builds computers for people so I am going to go over this info with him after I get the money which should be within the next month or two for sure, and get the parts etc. I know he has enough experience in it to help with sound dampening etc. if thats even needed which it probably wont end up being needed anyway.

OK, just making sure you have a way to get it built.

I can spend a lot more on this thing but I'm trying to be efficient and not just blow money on memory etc. that I really wont be depending on anyway

That's a good idea .

So you are helping narrow things down a lot I really appreciate it.

Sorry that my posts are so long, but I try to be efficient.

 

[Bobo]

OK, so here is what your computer is now

DFI Lanparty UT nF4 SLI-DR--$178
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800--$632
Corsair XMS 2GB--$188 x2 = $376
XFX Geforce 7900GT--$300 x2 = $600
Thermaltake Armour Series--$150
Antec Truepower II--$90
CD/DVD burner with Lightscribe--$40 x2 = $80
Maxtor Diamondmax SATA II 500GB--$295 x2 = $590
WD Raptor 74GB 10000RPM--$160
TV Tuner--$90
Microsoft Windows Media Center 2005--$115

So the total is $3061, plus shipping will make a litle over $3100.

As to cooling, the case listed has 4 fans, the CPU has one, the PSU has one, and both GFX cards have one, so that is 8 total fans in your system. If the CPU temps are high, you can upgrade the HSF later, but I think that they should be OK.

So there are a few extras that you still need: keyboard/mouse, monitors, and speakers. For the keyboard setup, it is really whatever you want, but I would highly recommend the Logitech DiNovo setup. Check it out, if you don't want it, then get something else.

For speakers, I recommend the Logitech Z5450 setup, but once again, this is a matter of personal opinion.

 

[Jesusgetstheglory777333]

Awsome. Thanks a lot I'll definately be purchasing most of those parts, any monitor suggestions? Something cheaper with the monitor would be good. The speaker system looks good, but making music what i have read is you need a flat lined eq speaker to get correct mixing on tracks. Like basically that speaker system you showed would probably color the mix a bit, but I'm not sure what I'm talking about
Definately a good idea with everything though thanks a lot, I'm trying to contact the guy to put it together right now and he will probably charge a small fee to do so but thats cool, i'll be getting back to you on further prospects God bless you abundantly in Jesus name amen

 

[Bobo]

Awsome. Thanks a lot I'll definately be purchasing most of those parts, any monitor suggestions? Something cheaper with the monitor would be good.

Like what kind of cheaper?

Here is a very good LG 19" flatscreen, for $260.

And I really have no idea what you are talking about on the mixing. I have 5.1 sound, and do a lot of audio editing, and I have never had a problem with anything.