Should I go Mac?

Discussion in 'Digital Cameras, Webcams and Scanners' started by BettinaFJ, May 2, 2010.

  1. tlarkin

    tlarkin VIP Member

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    12,874
    I can highlight text too...

     
  2. Ethan3.14159

    Ethan3.14159 Active Member

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    Drenlin: That is so wrong it hurts.

    The highest resolution possible isn't a good thing. It's about perfect pixel density. Who the hell wants 1920 x 1080 on a 15" screen?? Everything is so small and difficult to see at that size and resolution. I call bullshit on the better color reproduction. Sorry, but the Macbook Pro screens are far higher quality. You can't compare IPS screens to standard LED or LCD screens.

    An ambient light sensor is important for some people. It controls the backlit keyboard and brightness of the screen to prevent eye strain. Not to mention saves battery life.

    The Unibody chassis isn't "misleading" every Macbook Pro is carved out of one solid block of aluminum. It makes it far sturdier than PC laptops that are pieced together out of plastic and sometimes aluminum or magnesium.

    I fail to see exactly how it's 2.5 - 3x as powerful. Actually the 8 cell battery in the Macbook Pro takes up less space than the average laptop battery. The design of flat cells over cylindrical saves a lot of space. Also, Macbook's have a chip that monitors the battery to keep from overcharging, so they last many times longer than PC laptop batteries.

    Even though the Asus is apparently much more powerful it's far slower starting up and shutting down. Not to mention much slower in many applications, such as Photoshop, Adobe Premiere, Cubase, etc etc. But that's just down to an inferior OS that can't manage resources properly.

    Oh noes!!! No 3DMark06 benchmarks! It must be teh sux0rs!!!
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  3. speedyink

    speedyink VIP Member

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    4,452
    Whhhat?? I love my 1920x1080 16" screen. I know with a mac it may be hard to see, but in Windows you can adjust the DPI to compensate. Higher resolution = clearer picture = better screen.

    This laptop I'm typing on was ripped off it's lock by some crack head, had beer or pop spilled over it, and was used as a projectile weapon from a pissed off ex girlfriend. And thats only what I know. It's plastic, it looks pretty much new (I cleaned it when I got it), and functions fine. Don't tell me plastic ain't strong.

    Lol, every single Lithion Ion battery has this chip..it's a safety feature and required.

    I knew this would happen to this thread, lol.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  4. tlarkin

    tlarkin VIP Member

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    12,874
    Not exactly the same, this is firmware level stuff that lets the power management control the battery. The standard sensors you are referring to are read only and only relay battery info to the laptop. I am sure some PC laptops out there have a similar feature, but it is definitely not a standard one.
     
  5. MyCattMaxx

    MyCattMaxx Active Member

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    3,161
    I'd be very surprised if the OP responds to this thread again.
     
  6. tlarkin

    tlarkin VIP Member

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    12,874
    Assuming Bettina is a gal, she probably won't even care to read any of this stuff. This thread derailed quick anyway, with people who have no business talking about a Mac butting in and doing so.
     
  7. Drenlin

    Drenlin Active Member

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    3,578
    Also, I'm not going into detail because it's 5:30 AM, but the Asus has quite a few other features that make it perfectly suited for its purpose. It is thoroughly well-designed machine.

    My point is not to pit these two specific machines against each other in a deathmatch, but to show that you can easily find a computer of similar quality to a macbook for a lower price.

    However, photo editing is the Mac's forte, so TS, if you like the operating system well enough, then you'll be perfectly fine with it.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  8. Geoff

    Geoff VIP Member

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    37,673
    Higher resolution does not mean a better screen. IPS screens are MUCH more expensive, and have superior color reproduction. There is a reason why you can buy a 28" 1920x1200 LCD monitor for $350 but a lower end 24" IPS monitor goes for over $400.
     
  9. tlarkin

    tlarkin VIP Member

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    12,874
    For someone who doesn't really know jack-crap about Macs, you sure have a lot of opinions on them....one last time

    This is false, just look at the going market rate for IPS screens to begin with. high end 24" monitors sell for over $700. The lower end IPS ones over $400. Apple is pricing it fairly compared to what the market is currently selling them for. Apple doesn't make it's money off of hardware sales all by itself. They may have a higher profit margin but that is because they do everything in house. From the bottom up, which means not only do they have quality control, but they have financial control as well. Apple laptops are also made of higher quality parts, that is just a fact. PCs are mass produced by factories in Asia from the lowest bidder. Almost all PC computer parts are made by the same 4 or 5 manufacturers.

    Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. 802.11A radios have a much broader signal spectrum, it is 5Ghz, as opposed to 2.4Ghz. When you have thousands upon thousands of wireless devices from phones, cameras, laptops, netbooks, some desktops on wifi, and so forth - having that wider spectrum bandwidth is essential. 802.11N has some support for 5Ghz bands, but it is not like every enterprise has 100s of millions to upgrade their back end to a pre-standard at this point in time. 802.11A has not been replaced. Read a book on networking.

    I know it is not made out of the same physical materials as the Macbooks.

    Fair enough but last time we had this debate that was not listed as a feature or part of the specs on any website you linked. I know because I read the links you provided and compiled a list of features it was lacking compared to the Mac. If this is the case, then I retract my previous comment.

    Again, this is your opinion. FW is a superior technology. Data transfers run at a constant rate, where USB is burst speed and not as reliable. If you are doing large file transfers, audio/video stuff, high end audio hardware connects over firewire, or if you want to use Target Disk Mode, you are going to need a FW port. Most basic cheap peripherals are USB, almost all high end ones are through firewire. Regardless of your opinion of it, this is yet another feature your PC comparison lacked. Therefore it would cost extra money to add that feature to your compared PC laptop, thus raising the cost. Just like adding support for 802.11A wifi. Even if you claim you do not need it, to make a more balanced comparison you would be forced to upgrade the PC to compare actual costs versus features given. Which is my point the WHOLE time.

    This is why I hate benchmarks. It gives a false sense of performance. 30-35% faster in what application? What use? What specific conditions? It may be, at some point 30-35% faster in certain aspects, but overall performance no way. Also, Apple offers both the i5 and the i7 now. Over clock a laptop? What retard would do that? It would destroy your battery life. Your point is completely pointless.

    Again, how many laptops have you taken apart and put back together. Cheaply made plastic snap-on parts do not last as long as metal unibody parts which do not snap together. I can't tell you how many times I have seen laptops chipped all over from being dump or laid down in their bags the wrong way. This is because they are cheaply made. When I say they, I am talking pretty much about most sub $1,000 PC laptops. I agree that there are some nicer PC laptops out there, but they are almost always at the very least $800 to $900 and the really higher quality ones are over $1,000.00. My parents bought a new laptop recently, Sony Vaio. It was I think $750. It is slim, not as slim as a mac, but you can tell the plastic on the body does not hold up to the metal of the Mac. Plastic also warps and bends easier.

    This is where you FAIL to see that the Macbook Pro packs a super mean punch in a small, sleek, light weight case. With tons of more battery life. People don't buy laptops for power, they buy them for mobility. You are failing to see these as features, but they are. You will not find a PC laptop with in spec range of a Mac and have it yield the same battery life and be the same size and weight. You keep arguing that you don't need a certain feature, or that it being 2 inches thick is not a big deal. If you want to compare the Macbook to the PC you gotta make sure the PC matches the Macbook in every aspect, only then is it comparable.

    As for the Sudden Motion Sensor applications, I was assuming you'd actually use google, but here I did it for you:

    http://osxbook.com/book/bonus/chapter10/ams2hid/

    http://www.lockergnome.com/osx/2006/07/13/using-that-sudden-motion-sensor-for-fun/

    http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/11-cool-and-sometimes-useless-things-you-can-do-with-your-macbook/

    [YT]gxDiOJOt0Hg[/YT]

    [YT]Dl4jxjhw8WE[/YT]

    [YT]KkAtRfA1UXc[/YT]

    So, next time you want to match up a PC laptop, make sure it actually has similar specs so it is comparable. Otherwise, your whole point is pretty much forfeit. If it is lacking a feature, you better add the fact that the costs should off balance if you were to add an IPS screen, SMS, 802.11A, or the fact that Aluminum is more expensive than plastic and is a higher quality part. It won't warp or melt in the heat as easy as a plastic will, nor will chip or fade either. That raises the production and manufacturing cost of the laptop.
     
  10. Geoff

    Geoff VIP Member

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    37,673
    Checkmate.
     
  11. tlarkin

    tlarkin VIP Member

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    12,874
    Arguing, that you don't need 802.11A does not take away from the fact if the PC laptop doesn't have that feature, it would STILL be an extra cost to add it. If you wanted to compare a build-your-own desktop to an iMac, your monitor better be IPS supported and the same size, otherwise it is not even a close comparison.

    People who can't grasp that concept have no business posting in these threads.
     
  12. Geoff

    Geoff VIP Member

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    37,673
    Agreed. I myself used to think that Mac's were overpriced and not worth the cost unless you were a photo/video editor. Once you've used Mac's and know what makes up the higher cost for those who compare basics specs to a Windows-based laptop, know that Mac's are worth what the cost.

    On an unrelated note, you mention that you are using 802.11a to help limit the number of personal equipment on the network. I'm not sure what you are using for your firewall, but at our school district we will be upgrading to newer Sonicwall's that allows MAC filtering. Our plan is to tie into our inventory control system and add all district computers to the white list, which will block any student or teacher from using their computer, iPod, DS, etc. on our network.
     
  13. tlarkin

    tlarkin VIP Member

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    12,874
    I think that ultimately they are not 100% comparable, but if you want to compare you better bring the PC in question up to spec to the Mac to compare it.

    Hmm, we have over 20,000 devices in my enterprise with a MAC address. Mac filtering? No thanks. :) 802.11 A has the higher bandwidth too, which makes microwave signal better in old, solid steel and brick buildings.
     
  14. Geoff

    Geoff VIP Member

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    37,673
    Our district is smaller, about 1/5 the size. We have our own inventory control system that we were able to tie into so we don't have to do everything manually. Sure it's a pain to initially setup, but whenever a new computer is reimaged the MAC will automatically be added to the white list.
     
  15. tlarkin

    tlarkin VIP Member

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    12,874
    we have 8,000 Macs and I manage them. We use the Casper Suite and I have a full inventory I can output into spread sheets, php, html, csv, and so forth and tie into all sorts of things. I also can easily push out authenticated bind scripts (which I have done for certain computers) which will generate unique entries in Open Directory and then I can add in LDAP support for any third party and it can take it from there.

    The problem is, this district has been around for like 80 years, and it is rather large (over 60 buildings, 30k students, 5k employees) and not everything is in an inventory system. Then we have all the network cameras, switches, controllers, and so forth that also have Ethernet ports and MAC addresses, as well as 1000s of access points (all Cisco).

    I see the benefit of it for sure, but anytime anyone mentions MAC filtering everyone's eyes kind of glaze over. I'd rather do authentication and run RADIUS and tie it into LDAP personally. Which we can do, but no one here as the time to even test it out, let along implement it to 20,000 devices.
     
  16. Drenlin

    Drenlin Active Member

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    3,578
    Apple does not do "everything" in house. Some of the previous generation Macbooks were manufactured by Asus. The new ones are most likely manufactured by Quanta and Foxconn. What I quoted was their net profit margin...meaning after everything is said and done, this is what they make. It's higher than any other company I could find, though IBM wasn't far behind.

    I didn't realize your workplace was so large...apologies. I can see the use of it there. Still, you know as well as I do that most non-commercial networks support B/G. The average consumer will likely use an A-only network very rarely, if at all. And if it's really that big of a deal to the owner, it doesn't cost a whole lot to buy an a/b/g/n card and install it...

    Fair enough. I did say that it most likely isn't as good. Tell me, though, what is the G73's touch pad made of?

    My point exactly. It's useful for his sort of thing, but the average user of a gaming laptop won't be doing that type of stuff. They chose to drop Firewire in favor of other features that gamers would want. Same with Expresscard.

    Fair enough, then. If you want things that raise production cost, add a low range driver, on-the-fly overclocking, a 7200RPM hard drive(optional dual 500GB), a second 2.5" SATA bay, two more DIMMs, a second video output, an optional Blu-Ray drive, an EAX 4.0 compatible sound card, a numpad, and a standard lithium-ion battery to the macbook and see what happens to the cost of it.

    It doesn't translate well into real-world performance, but it does translate fairly well into power usage, which was the point pf that comment.

    Gamers would do that. Again, this thing isn't made for long battery life. It's a portable gaming system. Performance matters more than portability. It'll most likelly be plugged in while gaming. If battery life is that big of an issue for the owner, they can just buy a second battery...it'd take, what, a minute at most to shut down, swap them out, and power up again?

    For $750, that'd have to be a Vaio E-series. E stands for Eco...they're built using "green" technologies. The shell is recycled bottles, so it's going to be a bit flimsier than usual.

    And actually, Aluminum will suffer from permanent deformation before most plastics will. I'm not saying that cheaper plastic is a better choice, and I'm certainly not saying that apple's shells are low quality, but it's not a clear-cut case of aluminum=good and plastic=bad.

    Again, the laptop I mentioned is not built for ultra-high mobility. People DO buy it for power. I could say "Show me a Macbook that comes anywhere close to what the G73's can do." and we'd be here for another week. But that isn't the point. You cannot compare a Bentley Continental to a Saleen S7 apples-to-apples, but they are both equally top-notch vehicles.

    Again, those are using the built-in accelerometer. It could be argued that this is part of that system, but SMS as described by Apple is a means of protecting the hard drive.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2010
  17. speedyink

    speedyink VIP Member

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    4,452
    I was generalizing.. For example, a 1360x768 IPS would be considered worse than a 1920x1080 IPS screen...regardless of the screen size.

    As for this whole argument;

    Is the Macbook Pro one of the best laptops you can buy?

    Yes.

    Would I buy one?

    No.

    Why? Because I'm not paying for a bunch of features I don't need. Light sensor..don't need it..I can control the screen brightness easy enough myself. SMS, nope, I'm careful with my shit. Glass touchpad? Well..considering I carry around my logitech nano everywhere, no dice. IPS Screen? Sure, photography is a hobby, but not big enough to justify dropping $300 for a bit better color depth. Viewing angle isn't an advantage anymore.

    I could go on but you get the point. Honestly, I don't have $1600 burning a hole in my ass, so if I can save $800 by tweaking the options I will. But that does mean I can't buy a mac.
     
  18. Drenlin

    Drenlin Active Member

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    3,578
    ^ Well said.
     
  19. speedyink

    speedyink VIP Member

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    4,452
    Well, that may be a different chip or something, but every lithium ion battery has a chip to monitor the temperature, so as the battery doesn't combust. The chemicals in a lithium ion are much more prone to that than say the chemicals in an alkaline. The handy side effect of this is that it does help prevent over charging.

    Edit:

    Via Wikipedia:

    Safety requirements
    Li-ion batteries are not as durable as nickel metal hydride or nickel-cadmium designs,[citation needed] and can be dangerous if mistreated. They may suffer thermal runaway and cell rupture if overheated or charged to an excessively high voltage.[38] In extreme cases, these effects may be described as "explosive." Furthermore, they may be irreversibly damaged if discharged below a certain voltage. To reduce these risks, lithium-ion batteries generally contain a small circuit that shuts down the battery when it is discharged below about 3 V or charged above about 4.2 V.[22][39] In normal use, the battery is therefore prevented from being deeply discharged. When stored for long periods, however, the small current drawn by the protection circuitry may drain the battery below the protection circuit's lower limit, in which case normal chargers are unable to recharge the battery. More sophisticated battery analyzers can recharge deeply discharged cells by slow-charging them to reactivate the safety circuit and allow the battery to accept charge again.[40]
    Other safety features are required for commercial lithium-ion batteries:[22]
    shut-down separator (for overtemperature),
    tear-away tab (for internal pressure),
    vent (pressure relief), and
    thermal interrupt (overcurrent/overcharging).
    These devices occupy useful space inside the cells, reduce their reliability[citation needed]; ,and permanently and irreversibly disable the cell when activated. They are required because the anode produces heat during use, while the cathode may produce oxygen. Safety devices and improved electrode designs greatly reduce or eliminate the risk of fire or explosion.
    These safety features increase the cost of lithium-ion batteries compared to nickel metal hydride cells, which only require a hydrogen/oxygen recombination device (preventing damage due to mild overcharging) and a back-up pressure valve.[39]
    Many types of lithium-ion cell cannot be charged safely below 0 °C.[citation needed]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Safety_requirements
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2010
  20. tlarkin

    tlarkin VIP Member

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    12,874
    Then the PC you are talking about is not comparable and the Mac is still not over priced. Which is the whole debate I am getting at.

    I know you hate apple, and that is your opinion, and you are one of the few people that have actually used one for a short period of time. So I do take what you say better than what most people say here.
     

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