watching people on my network

[theshadowxx]

Hi I have a question, is there a way to see what others are doing on my network? I leave my network unsecured and it looks like my neighbors decided to connect to it and use it. I was wondering is there anyway I can see what their doing?

 

[tlarkin]

Just secure it

 

[Vampiric Rouge]

In your router you can look at the DHCP active leases. That will show if he is using DHCP.

You can also use other shadier programs that will scan for other connected hosts.

 

[tlarkin]

In your router you can look at the DHCP active leases. That will show if he is using DHCP.

You can also use other shadier programs that will scan for other connected hosts.

No, don't do any of that, that makes you just as bad as the script kiddies and hackers and the wifi leeches. Just secure your network and kick them off.

 

[theshadowxx]

Just secure it

thanks for answering my question :good:

In your router you can look at the DHCP active leases. That will show if he is using DHCP.

You can also use other shadier programs that will scan for other connected hosts.

I already know how to kick them off, I kick them off for fun, I'm just wondering if I could see what their doing

No, don't do any of that, that makes you just as bad as the script kiddies and hackers and the wifi leeches. Just secure your network and kick them off.

? Their the ones leeching off my network, and no I don't want to secure my network, the only thing I would consider doing is MAC address filtering, but that's besides the point because that's not what this thread is about.

 

[Vampiric Rouge]

? Their the ones leeching off my network, and no I don't want to secure my network, the only thing I would consider doing is MAC address filtering, but that's besides the point because that's not what this thread is about.

I was going to say that but I wasn't going to start that fight...

 

[tlarkin]

While they are technically trespassing, you are also doing borderline illegal stuff by breaking into their computers or tracking their actions. You should secure your network anyway, because there are tons of bad things people can do on your network which will be traced back to your WAN IP.

MAC filtering does jack crap, and is easily by-passable by the dumbest of script kidides.

I think that there should be some common respect among computer users, but there is not. That is why security was developed. When computers were first being built no one ever thought of encryption, or even permissions because it was assumed (this is back in the 60s with Unix) that people on a network would always play nice.

I say, just secure it with WPA and AES encryption to protect both you and them.

 

[Vipernitrox]

Just wondering why wouldn't you want to secure your network? Even wep will fend off like 90% of intruders.

And why would you ever want to track other users on your network? It's none of your business....

 

[Vampiric Rouge]

While they are technically trespassing, you are also doing borderline illegal stuff by breaking into their computers or tracking their actions.

Who said anything about breaking in to their computers. He asked about tacking their traffic, it's totally different and has nothing to do with "Hacking" into their system.

You should secure your network anyway, because there are tons of bad things people can do on your network which will be traced back to your WAN IP.

I know a lot of people that leave their networks unsecured for this reason. If people do bad things on your network you can play the well it was an open network it wasn't me card. If you lock your network and they have done bad things in the past or someone cracks your easily broken wep key and does bad things your kind of SOL.

 

[tlarkin]

Who said anything about breaking in to their computers. He asked about tacking their traffic, it's totally different and has nothing to do with "Hacking" into their system.



I know a lot of people that leave their networks unsecured for this reason. If people do bad things on your network you can play the well it was an open network it wasn't me card. If you lock your network and they have done bad things in the past or someone cracks your easily broken wep key and does bad things your kind of SOL.

I am certain if you argue that to a judge, and when he asks you why you leave your network unsecured, and they may conclude you are like a spider trying to trap flies in your web. That is illegal. Tracking someone's private property could easily fall under a violation of the 4th Amendment, which does not allow anyone to search or seize property with out legal due process.

This also leaves you wide open for a civil lawsuit, which will bankrupt you, even if you win the case.

Just because a stranger is on your unsecured network does not mean they forfeit their rights, nor does it give you the right to invade their personal property. Furthermore, from a legal standpoint it can be easily questionable if you knew how to secure your network but refused to, so you could bait people to come in and possibly do malicious things.

Last point, and this is probably the best one. Say, I am downloading something illegal, like child porn. I see an unsecured network, I log on, grab my illegal porn, and it is all tracked to YOUR public IP address. Want the FBI knocking on your door seizing all of your computers because of this? Oh, and when the FBI comes a knocking they will have a warrant granting them the right to your electronic property, and they will take it.

I don't even see how this is even up for debate? Common sense thing to do, is to secure your network to protect mainly yourself from these sort of things from happening.

Oh yeah and dude, if you can crack AES encryption the NSA would like to award you with 4 billion dollars for doing so. WPA and AES encryption is virtually uncrackable and very secure.

 

[Vampiric Rouge]

Oh yeah and dude, if you can crack AES encryption the NSA would like to award you with 4 billion dollars for doing so. WPA and AES encryption is virtually uncrackable and very secure.

I said WEP...

 

[tlarkin]

I said WEP...

OK, but even then man. If you can prove you had security, and it can be proven that that security can be cracked, it still gives you the argument that you were trying to safeguard your network.

Regardless of security, if you raise federal flags the FBI will show up with a warrant and will take all of your computers and even if you are found innocent of said charges, what is stopping them from finding other "illegal" stuff on your comptuer?

 

[Vampiric Rouge]

I am certain if you argue that to a judge, and when he asks you why you leave your network unsecured, and they may conclude you are like a spider trying to trap flies in your web.

Is it illegal to not secure your wireless? Nothing about spiders or webs. You're not required to secure it(not that you shouldn't). You could think of plenty of reasons why not to, anything from lazy to don't know how, to I though it was...

That is illegal. Tracking someone's private property could easily fall under a violation of the 4th Amendment, which does not allow anyone to search or seize property with out legal due process.

What are you searching that violates the 4th amendment. Again, all you are doing is trying to see what there traffic is. Should you not look at their bandwidth usage on your router because that's privet too, even it it's killing your connection?

Just because a stranger is on your unsecured network does not mean they forfeit their rights, nor does it give you the right to invade their personal property. Furthermore, from a legal standpoint it can be easily questionable if you knew how to secure your network but refused to, so you could bait people to come in and possibly do malicious things.

When you go on the airline do they scan your bags? How is that different from packet analysis of some one on your wireless. It's your internet that your paying for. Your not "searching" there computer. Your simpilly seeing what they are sending through YOUR router and YOUR internet connection.

Last point, and this is probably the best one. Say, I am downloading something illegal, like child porn. I see an unsecured network, I log on, grab my illegal porn, and it is all tracked to YOUR public IP address. Want the FBI knocking on your door seizing all of your computers because of this? Oh, and when the FBI comes a knocking they will have a warrant granting them the right to your electronic property, and they will take it.

Exactly what I'm saying. You can't control pop ups and the like, something illegal gets accidentally sent to you or a guest in your house isn't as honest. I'm not saying it's a way to do illegal things on your network, it's not. It just give you a legal safety cushion in case of an accident/stupidity. If the FBI comes and when they find nothing. All charges are dropped. It's not like you loose everything because someone else broke the law on your internet.

I don't even see how this is even up for debate? Common sense thing to do, is to secure your network to protect mainly yourself from these sort of things from happening.

I'm not saying you shouldn't secure your wireless. I'm saying there are reasons why some people done. The question was about wireless sniffing of packets. If he should secure his wireless.

 

[Vampiric Rouge]

Regardless of security, if you raise federal flags the FBI will show up with a warrant and will take all of your computers and even if you are found innocent of said charges, what is stopping them from finding other "illegal" stuff on your comptuer?

Don't have illegal stuff?

Well if your pushing network encryption push drive encryption right along with it...

 

[tlarkin]

Wow dude. yes, people do deliberately keep open wifi so they can steal information off of people using it. Also, lots of webmail passwords are sent in plain text because they don't by default use HTTPS.

So, yes, if a judge deemed you were broadcasting open wifi for malicious reasons, like spying, like the OP is talking about they could charge you with crimes. It would be considered warantless wiretapping.

I don't see how this is up for debate and how you want to justify spying on people on your open network. How is that not bait?

You should read up on current laws, legislation and you should read up on your rights. 4th amendment does in fact protect your digital property too. Also, see the electronic information act.

 

[Vampiric Rouge]

He didn't originally leave his wireless open to "bait" people. Some one started stealing it. From what it sounds like the op didn't leave the wireless unsecured for malicious reasons.

If that is your premise then how are honeypots not illegal?

 

[tlarkin]

He didn't originally leave his wireless open to "bait" people. Some one started stealing it. From what it sounds like the op didn't leave the wireless unsecured for malicious reasons.

If that is your premise then how are honeypots not illegal?

I could tell you about the anarchist cook book, and you could go out on your own and use it for bad things, does that make me legally responsible? No, it does not.

You aren't grasping what I am saying here, and perhaps I am not writing it out clear enough.

Are free wifi spots illegal in anyway? NO, definitely not.

When people use free wifi for malicious and illegal activities, does that make the free wifi illegal? No

If you purposely bait people, or hell don't even look at it that way, if you are allowing people on your free wifi and then spying on them, is it illegal? Yes, and it leaves you wide open for civil suit, even if is not illegal for some reason or another (like a loop hole).

 

[Vampiric Rouge]

Your right, however they are not on an open free wifi spot. The neighbor is breaking the law and stealing his wifi, which has court cases backing up that it is illegal.

I still disagree with:

If you are allowing people on your free wifi and then spying on them, is it illegal? Yes, and it leaves you wide open for civil suit, even if is not illegal for some reason or another (like a loop hole).

It brings me right back to the honeypot.

 

[tlarkin]

Your right, however they are not on an open free wifi spot. The neighbor is breaking the law and stealing his wifi, which has court cases backing up that it is illegal.

I still disagree with:



It brings me right back to the honeypot.

It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, it is illegal to wiretap any device with out due process of law, how can you not comprehend it? I am not stating my opinions here, I am stating that it is dumb to leave it wide open and if the OP does anything to those computers it can be considered illegal.

Civil suits don't require anyone breaking the law, and even if you win the case it is still going to cost you tons of time and money.

So, why not just ********* encrypt your network?

Done, and unsubscribing to this thread

 

[Vampiric Rouge]

That's fine. You don't have to respond. I guess I just don't understand how wiretapping my own internet is illegal....


And you can bring people on civil law suites for anything as you said.... Not really a strong argument.


What ever.

/thread