What is better?

jman15

Member
I have Sapphire Radeon 6770 gpu


looking at:

EVGA GeForce GT 610 2048MB DDR3

MSI NVIDIA GeForce GT 610 2GB GDDR3

XFX HD 6570 650MHz 2GB DDR3


They have more memory than my current one but they are way cheaper than what I bought mine for a couple years ago and I know memory isn't the only thing to that is important when looking at a gpu.
 

SpringWater

Member
Hd 6570 is slightly better but they're both really cruddy cards so don't expext good performance. Web browsing and uberlight gaming is all they can handle. If your current gpu is what you have in your signature then don't upgrade. Memory has very little to do with performance, with amd the general rule is the higher the number in a series (ex you have the 6xxx series) the better the card.
 
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G80FTW

Active Member
Hd 6570 is slightly better but they're both really cruddy cards so don't expext good performance. Web browsing and uberlight gaming is all they can handle. If your current gpu is what you have in your signature then don't upgrade. Memory has very little to do with performance, with amd the general rule is the higher the number in a series (ex you have the 6xxx series) the better the card.

Memory plays a BIG role in gaming performance. More so than the GPU itself if you dont have enough of it. If he has less than 1GB it probably would be well worth it to get a slower 2GB card. As the current card has to keep reloading its memory which wastes resources and slows the whole thing down drastically.

Graphics cards are more often than not held back by their memory systems to begin with. Thats why you will see better memory setups with the same GPU will perform much much better in games. (example 128-bit interface versus 256-bit or GDDR3 veruses GDDR4)

If the other 2 really are standard DDR3 I would go with the one that is GDDR3 as its better. Never seen newer cards use standard DDR though. I thought after like 2006 all mainstream cards used GDDR though I havent peeked in those entry levels.

For $200 your best bet is probably:

AMD = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150641

nVidia = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121660

Both of those should run circles around what you have now.
 
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jman15

Member
Memory plays a BIG role in gaming performance. More so than the GPU itself if you dont have enough of it. If he has less than 1GB it probably would be well worth it to get a slower 2GB card. As the current card has to keep reloading its memory which wastes resources and slows the whole thing down drastically.

Graphics cards are more often than not held back by their memory systems to begin with. Thats why you will see better memory setups with the same GPU will perform much much better in games. (example 128-bit interface versus 256-bit or GDDR3 veruses GDDR4)

If the other 2 really are standard DDR3 I would go with the one that is GDDR3 as its better. Never seen newer cards use standard DDR though. I thought after like 2006 all mainstream cards used GDDR though I havent peeked in those entry levels.

For $200 your best bet is probably:

AMD = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150641

nVidia = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121660

Both of those should run circles around what you have now.

If I grab one of those will i need to upgrade my power supply or should i be good?
 

G80FTW

Active Member
If I grab one of those will i need to upgrade my power supply or should i be good?

Probably not but being that its an Ultra it couldnt hurt. I havent had the best experience with Ultra products other than a case that I had for like 5 years.
 

G80FTW

Active Member
i don't know the difference, care to explain?

The R9 270x is pretty much a re-badged 7870 with a slightly higher price tag. Granted it is SLIGHTLY faster. Much like the GeForce 780 is a re-badged 680 that is SLIGHTLY faster.

If you want the main difference, the 270x is newer. The price is nearly identical so if you want something newer then you can go for that.

You could save $20 and get the older 7800 series equivalent and put that money towards a power supply if you are really stuck on a $200 upgrade budget. Which I recommend.
 

StrangleHold

Moderator
Staff member
The R9 270x is pretty much a re-badged 7870 with a slightly higher price tag. Granted it is SLIGHTLY faster. Much like the GeForce 780 is a re-badged 680 that is SLIGHTLY faster.

If you want the main difference, the 270x is newer. The price is nearly identical so if you want something newer then you can go for that.

You could save $20 and get the older 7800 series equivalent and put that money towards a power supply if you are really stuck on a $200 upgrade budget. Which I recommend.


Not the point. You were telling him to get the 7850 or 660. The R9 270X is faster then either and about the same price. Has nothing to do with if its a newer 7870
 

G80FTW

Active Member
Not the point. You were telling him to get the 7850 or 660. The R9 270X is faster then either and about the same price. Has nothing to do with if its a newer 7870

Well thats my bad. I did not see the 270x on the list when I had them sorted in the price range.
 

Okedokey

Well-Known Member
Memory plays a BIG role in gaming performance. More so than the GPU itself if you dont have enough of it. If he has less than 1GB it probably would be well worth it to get a slower 2GB card. As the current card has to keep reloading its memory which wastes resources and slows the whole thing down drastically.

This is overstating it completely. My GTX580s with 1.5GB were commonly bottled by the VRAM and I would prefer those to a 4GB on any lower end card... Plus the difference is only really shown at 3K or higher resolutions as shown here

http://alienbabeltech.com/main/gtx-770-4gb-vs-2gb-tested/4/

and here

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Video-Card-Performance-2GB-vs-4GB-Memory-154/

and here

...testing with Battlefield 4 was the RAM usage they observed, cards with 3GB or more of VRAM used 2.25GB of RAM at most points, cards with less topped out at 1.75GB of usage.
http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/BF4-and-3GB-VRAM-myth

and besides the point, even the 270X is never going to be any good beyond 1080p where it matters to have more VRAM.
 
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G80FTW

Active Member
This is overstating it completely. My GTX580s with 1.5GB were commonly bottled by the VRAM and I would prefer those to a 4GB on any lower end card... Plus the difference is only really shown at 3K or higher resolutions as shown here

http://alienbabeltech.com/main/gtx-770-4gb-vs-2gb-tested/4/

and here

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Video-Card-Performance-2GB-vs-4GB-Memory-154/

and here

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/BF4-and-3GB-VRAM-myth

and besides the point, even the 270X is never going to be any good beyond 1080p where it matters to have more VRAM.

Your comparing minmums of 2GB cards to higher ones. Most games dont even use 2GB of vram so of course you wont see a drastic difference between 2GB and 4GB if your not even using the initial 2GB.

Im saying if he has less than 1GB his card would be struggling because most games use at LEAST 1GB of vram.

And also, the reason they saw 3GB using 2.25GB and 2GB cards using 1.75GB is because they cannot utilize the entire 3GB/2GB on the card as some of the memory is dedicated for other use. Which has nothing to do with the game, its just that no game can use the full 3GB or 2GB available. Personally, I have never seen a game use more than 1.8GB of VRAM on my machine at 1080p with 8xAA. BF3 I never saw more than that, and BF4 shouldnt be any different since its basically the same exact game.
 
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Okedokey

Well-Known Member
And also, the reason they saw 3GB using 2.25GB and 2GB cards using 1.75GB is because they cannot utilize the entire 3GB/2GB on the card as some of the memory is dedicated for other use. Which has nothing to do with the game, its just that no game can use the full 3GB or 2GB available. Personally, I have never seen a game use more than 1.8GB of VRAM on my machine at 1080p with 8xAA. BF3 I never saw more than that, and BF4 shouldnt be any different since its basically the same exact game.

God you talk some rubbish. VRAM is used for Video RAM, nothing else. BF3 is not the same as BF4, 1080p is a tiny resolution these days, and your machine is medium at best.

My 780Tis use 2.95 out of 3GB VRAM at 5760 x 1080. You should stop assuming your experience with your reasonably low end machine equates to the answer. Ive seen you do it over and over again.
 
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G80FTW

Active Member
God you talk some rubbish. VRAM is used for Video RAM, nothing else. BF3 is not the same as BF4, 1080p is a tiny resolution these days, and your machine is medium at best.

My 780Tis use 2.95 out of 3GB VRAM at 5760 x 1080. You should stop assuming your experience with your reasonably low end machine equates to the answer. Ive seen you do it over and over again.

Ok. 1080p is still the most common used resolution in PC gaming. Dont see how my machine is medium since your 780s are just re-branded 680s so basically the same as my 680.

The fact that you think I have a low-end system, or even medium, shows that you have more money than brains when it comes to computers.

BF4 is running on the same exact engine as BF3 no matter what DICE or EA want to sell to you. Which explains why I get almost the exact same performance.

Notice how its not using all of your 3GB? Yea, thats the point Im trying to make to you. Your system will NEVER use all the available VRAM.
 
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Okedokey

Well-Known Member
Ok. 1080p is still the most common used resolution in PC gaming. Dont see how my machine is medium since your 780s are just re-branded 680s so basically the same as my 680.

The fact that you think I have a low-end system, or even medium, shows that you have more money than brains when it comes to computers.

BF4 is running on the same exact engine as BF3 no matter what DICE or EA want to sell to you. Which explains why I get almost the exact same performance.

Notice how its not using all of your 3GB? Yea, thats the point Im trying to make to you. Your system will NEVER use all the available VRAM.

Here we go again...

780Tis are NOT 680s. They're the ONLY full version of that architecture... go read mate. It not even close (e.g. it has nearly 1300 more CUDA cores than the 680).

BF3 IS NOT the same engine as BF4. Look that up as well.

Finally please provide a reference to ANY of your claims, but particularly the one around VRAM never being able to be maxed?

Fail.
 
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G80FTW

Active Member
Here we go again...

780Tis are NOT 680s. They're the ONLY full version of that architecture... go read mate.

BF3 IS NOT the same engine as BF4. Look that up as well.

Finally please provide a reference to ANY of your claims, but particularly the one around VRAM never being able to be maxed?

Fail.

As for BF3 versus 4, your not going to find any solid evidence of what engine its actually using. Because only the developers know that. If they did design a whole new engine for it, they wasted their time not making it look or perform any better than the last one.

I may be wrong about the Ti version of the 780, however the standard 780 in alot of games there is a pretty minimal performance increase:
http://www.ijusttech.com/computers/geforce-gtx-780.html

So not exactly a re-brand, given that it does have more power, but not that much more power that it makes my 680 look like its standing still. If we are talking about a 5-10FPS on average, thats nothing.

As for the VRAM thing, if you actually look at your total available VRAM anywhere it will be less than what is advertised. Just the same as with any storage device, you will never be able to FULLY utilize 100% of whats physically on the card.

Just like my card is 4GB however it displays my available VRAM as 3.xGB not 4GB. Just like when you look at your system memory, it will tell you have say 12GB but only 11GB is available for use. Which is why you are only seeing 2.95GB of your 3GB being used. Because thats all it CAN use. Your system has "reserved" the other 50MB.
 
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Okedokey

Well-Known Member
As for BF3 versus 4, your not going to find any solid evidence of what engine its actually using. Because only the developers know that. If they did design a whole new engine for it, they wasted their time not making it look or perform any better than the last one.

Conspiracy theory at best, combined with your favourite falacy - a circular argument. Goes like this: "BF4 engine = BF4 engine because you cant show me the difference therefore BF4 = BF4"

Please, go to school and learn about fallacies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS0uytJuIlw

I may be wrong about the Ti version of the 780, however the standard 780 in alot of games there is a pretty minimal performance increase:
http://www.ijusttech.com/computers/geforce-gtx-780.html

So not exactly a re-brand, given that it does have more power, but not that much more power that it makes my 680 look likes its standing still. If we are talking about a 5-10FPS on average, thats nothing.

5-10FPS LOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLL.. seriously? You think a 680 is only 5 - 10fps slower than a 780Ti?

Not may, ARE wrong. The 780Ti smashes the 680 in every thing...

maxresdefault.jpg


and about the same as a 690 (which is 2 x 680s)

080313hfgk76qlwf01q6h1.jpg


As for the VRAM thing, if you actually look at your total available VRAM anywhere it will be less than what is advertised. Just the same as with any storage device, you will never be able to FULLY utilize 100% of whats physically on the card.

Just like my card is 4GB however it displays my available VRAM as 3.xGB not 4GB. Just like when you look at your system memory, it will tell you have say 12GB but only 11GB is available for use. Which is why you are only seeing 2.95GB of your 3GB being used. Because thats all it CAN use.

Fail, System ram and VRAM work completely different. Please show any single reference to your claim else it doesn't exist. 50Mb VRAM over 3GB VRAM is within the realms of error, not some 'reserved portion'. Please show any reference for your nonsense.
 

G80FTW

Active Member
Conspiracy theory at best, combined with your favourite falacy - a circular argument. Goes like this: "BF4 engine = BF4 engine because you cant show me the difference therefore BF4 = BF4"

Please, go to school and learn about fallacies.




5-10FPS LOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLL.. seriously? You think a 680 is only 5 - 10fps slower than a 780Ti?

Not may, ARE wrong. The 780Ti smashes the 680 in every thing...

and about the same as a 690 (which is 2 x 680s)

Fail, System ram and VRAM work completely different. Please show any single reference to your claim else it doesn't exist. 50Mb VRAM over 3GB VRAM is within the realms of error, not some 'reserved portion'. Please show any reference for your nonsense.

Because I cant PROVE that BF4 is running the same engine as BF3 means that it isnt? Well that makes even more sense. If it looks like BF3, it is BF3. And thats the case. Its not a circular argument at all, its plain and simple they did nothing to increase the graphical quality or the performance so how can they claim it to be running a brand new engine?

Its not just system RAM. I said ANY storage device. Your hard drive, solid state drive, your ipod, your phone. Anything that is a storage device cannot use 100% of the physical memory available. Its always been that way since day 1. Why? I couldnt exactly tell you. Perhaps its a marketing gimmick.

Show me your card using 100% of its VRAM then you will prove me wrong. Otherwise, you have proved to yourself that its not using 100% of the total physical VRAM.

5-10fps I was obviously comparing the standard 780, since I clearly stated that I was comparing it to the standard 780.

EDIT: First off, lets drop the whole your computer versus mine. Its obvious yours is faster. Its also obvious that mine is no slouch. Hardly a "medium" build. If I can max out every current game at 1080p with 8xAA and still get more than 40FPS average, that to me is a high end system. May not be the fastest, but its high end. Was top end when I built it.

Secondly, in response to the VRAM usage I will go back to the day where I had my 320MB 8800GTS. Here is a PERFECT example of how VRAM works and how it is important. With this card, I could NEVER use more than 312MB of VRAM, and I specifically remember posting in the screenshot thread asking why it would not use the full 320MB and if I really cared enough to prove it to you Id go dig it up from like 2 years ago. However, until you can prove that you can use all 3GB of your VRAM then by all means. So far, you have posted it as using 2.95GB which only proves my point I feel that I dont need to site any sources that say exactly what you are seeing yourself. Also, because I dont know exactly where to find such specific information.

Thirdly, staying with my 320MB 8800 I was shown exactly the importance of VRAM and what happens if you dont have enough of it:

http://www.hwcompare.com/4226/geforce-8800-gts-g80-320mb-vs-geforce-8800-gts-g80-640mb/

I mean, we are talking about an average of a 26% increase in overall performance. Just from having double the memory. Same exact GPU. It shows how having the right amount of VRAM can drastically effect your GPUs performance. Which goes back to my original statement that if the OPs graphics card has 1GB or less, if he plans on running games on high he will be exceeding that 1GB mark and his video card will be constantly reloading its memory and while that happens the GPU is doing nothing but waiting on the memory to reload.

And thats how VRAM effects gaming performance.

So just because you have all this money to throw around on the best equipment does not mean you know everything about the equipment you have.

If you look closer at the sited benchmarks from that link I posted, you will see that even SLi 8800 320s could not outperform a single 640 8800. Because even with double the processing power each GPU was still sitting around waiting for the VRAM to constantly reload.
 
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