Winchester Model 1887 - MW2

What should IW do about the Winchesters?

  • Leave them the way they are

    Votes: 13 38.2%
  • Balance them (reduce damage, range, etc.)

    Votes: 20 58.8%
  • Take them out all together!

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • Total voters
    34
Because higher level shouldn't = better gun. You can see that in all other successful unlocking games. Take a look at BF2, higher level guns are different, but not necessarily better than the starter guns. If you offer better guns to people who plays more, you'll just ruin the experience for starters and kill the fan base for the game.

If you have the same level equipment no matter what, then whats the incentive to level and play? Why even have a ranking system?

It doesn't ruin anything for new players, it gives you a goal to work towards and makes you want to play more to unlock better items.

Counter Strike is that way--->
 
If you have the same level equipment no matter what, then whats the incentive to level and play? Why even have a ranking system?

It doesn't ruin anything for new players, it gives you a goal to work towards and makes you want to play more to unlock better items.

Counter Strike is that way--->

Counter Strike doesn't have a ranking system...(?) What?

And the incentive is to unlock more/different guns, not necessarily better guns. An incentive doesn't really work when you're constantly getting killed by shot guns from like 100 feet away.
 
Counter Strike doesn't have a ranking system...(?) What?
Exactly my point, what you described is pretty much CS.

And the incentive is to unlock more/different guns, not necessarily better guns. An incentive doesn't really work when you're constantly getting killed by shot guns from like 100 feet away.
Who wants more of the same? In almost every game where you unlock weapons the higher level weapons are more effective.

Go shoot at someone from 100 feet with a 12 gauge and see what it does. The entire point of a shotgun is ease of use, thats why they're recommended for home defense and the like, you're almost guaranteed to hit, even at medium ranges. Average shotgun penetration at 45 yards is around 58%.
 
Exactly my point, what you described is pretty much CS.

Who wants more of the same? In almost every game where you unlock weapons the higher level weapons are more effective.

Go shoot at someone from 100 feet with a 12 gauge and see what it does. The entire point of a shotgun is ease of use, thats why they're recommended for home defense and the like, you're almost guaranteed to hit, even at medium ranges. Average shotgun penetration at 45 yards is around 58%.

Oh my god that's not the point. I don't care how realistic it is. Do you think it's realistic in COD to take a bullet from a Barret in the legs and keep on going? That thing will fricken tear your leg off. The point is game play, if you want realism go to a shooting range or something.
 
I don't even have the game, but when I play at my friends house and use the sniper rifle, Winchester, and/or assault rifles, I own EVERYONE. I think that's a sign of something wrong in the game if I can do this. I mean on MW1, I was pretty bad to begin with, but I got to a respectable skill level with the sniper. But in MW2, I'm just racking up kills, getting to 25 on my first day playing.
 
you can practically snipe with these shotguns i used them on the first prestige, and then started getting people using them on me, and i realized that them guns can make some1 that doesnt know how to play the game average 20 kills a game easily. i use the spaz, i would liek to see them nerf these guns take a way akimbo or something
 
I'm not saying "I kill people with the guns"

I'm saying I get montage quality stuff like every game... it's EASY
 
But realism often ruins games. The whole point of games is to offer entertainment. If they wanted to make everything realistic, every game would be hardcore, because there's no way in hell that you can get shot anywhere on your body that's unprotected and continue to run around and shooting/stabbing people.

To me (personally) I like realism in games, I mean, you can't have a perfectly realistic game otherwise once you die, that's it, you have to start again or something I don't know, but you know, bullet drop, wind effect etc etc. And not a health system where you come back to full health within second, the best health system is in AA3 where it actually depends where you get hit, if you get hit in a major artery you actually start bleeding and need someone to fix it and if you get shot in the legs you limp etc.

There are many accounts of people getting shot and still fighting, read the book (not watch the movie) Black Hawk Down some people get shot 5 times and still fight. Adrenaline can make you go very far in combat.

Dude, the thing has the stopping power of a modern day assault rifle. You mean to tell me that an SMG with a 9mm round should have that kind of stopping power? Even the people who love WaW will tell you the MP40 is OP. You shouldn't be able to kill somebody across map with an SMG.

Ok don't know about the last part (never done WaW online) so I'm only going to comment on the first part.
A 9mm round is a bigger round than what m4/16's and most other guns that use that type of bullet (if my understanding is correct) since they use .22 caliber bullets (5.56mm). So essentially, yes they can have that type of stopping power.

ANYWAY from what I have seen of these guns, they should just be taken out, I mean, how many of them in the world would there be anyway?
It's supposed to be "Modern" Warfare. So in the game, how far do these things go?
 
m4/m16 is actually a .223. It's slightly smaller than a 9mm but the round itself it larger, the impact behind an m4 or m16 is much higher than any 9mm. Mp40 has a muzzle velocity of ~1247 fps where the m4 has a muzzle velocity of ~2000 fps.

Theres thousands of them. They were made from 1887 through the 1920s and various companies still manufacturer them today. Reproduction 1887s are actually pretty popular and very effective. A lot of the guns in game are fairly old designs.
 
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m4/m16 is actually a .223. It's slightly smaller than a 9mm but the round itself it larger, the impact behind an m4 or m16 is much higher than any 9mm. Mp40 has a muzzle velocity of ~1247 fps where the m4 has a muzzle velocity of ~2000 fps.

Ah ok, yea the .22 thing got lost through converting lol, because (this is just what I've been told) a caliber is using the imperial system, like a .22 is a 22th of a inch or something?

Well it certainly is faster coming out of the muzzle lol, oh and I just remembered something I saw on one of them channels that tel you stuff lol. That the rounds used in m4/16's when they enter the body, because the back is heavier it breaks in two and causes more damage? I can see how that could have more stopping power, but 9mm rounds are still bigger and heavier I guess... I don't know, I'm just saying, but they do come out slower.

Theres thousands of them. They were made from 1887 through the 1920s and various companies still manufacturer them today. Reproduction 1887s are actually pretty popular and very effective. A lot of the guns in game are fairly old designs.

Ah ok, but would they still be usable? I mean, should they have been added into the game in the first place since they are fairly old?
 
A 9mm round is a bigger round than what m4/16's and most other guns that use that type of bullet (if my understanding is correct) since they use .22 caliber bullets (5.56mm). So essentially, yes they can have that type of stopping power.

wrong.

800px-Many_bullets.jpg


the first bullet in the picture is the 9x19mm Parabellum, which the MP40 uses. the fifth one from the right is the 5.56x45mm, which is the round an M16 uses.

The 9mm may have an larger diameter, but it has no where near the stopping power of a 5.56mm bullet.

EDIT: looks like I was beat to it :(
 
Ah ok, but would they still be usable? I mean, should they have been added into the game in the first place since they are fairly old?
Absolutely still usable. They use a .12 gauge shotgun shell like most other shotguns do. I have an original from 1890 (fires .12 gauge shells, but only black powder as opposed to newer smokeless) and a newer one and I use both quite often.

M16 and ak47 are both 50+ year old designs. The RPD has been around since WWII, m21 has been around since 1969, wa2000 has been around since the 70s, Dragunov has been around since 1958, .44 magnum has been around since 1950, the m79 (thumper) has been in use since 1961, and the RPG has as well.
 
wrong.

800px-Many_bullets.jpg


the first bullet in the picture is the 9x19mm Parabellum, which the MP40 uses. the fifth one from the right is the 5.56x45mm, which is the round an M16 uses.

The 9mm may have an larger diameter, but it has no where near the stopping power of a 5.56mm bullet.

EDIT: looks like I was beat to it :(

Ook, I was just going by the size lol. I've only fired a couple of .22's and a .224 and a 12 gauge so I didn't really know the actual size of the 9mm just guessing.
Looks like I was wrong. What's the 3rd from the left? 7.62 or something or rather?

But still these Winchester's, should they have been added into the game?
 
I'm not 100% on how the sizing works (math has never been one of my strong points lol), but you can see how big a .223 is compared to a 9mm above, and heres a .22 in comparison.

Konvention20090328-629-Blazer22Ammo.jpg
 
Absolutely still usable. They use a .12 gauge shotgun shell like most other shotguns do. I have an original from 1890 (fires .12 gauge shells, but only black powder as opposed to newer smokeless) and a newer one and I use both quite often.

M16 and ak47 are both 50+ year old designs. The RPD has been around since WWII, m21 has been around since 1969, wa2000 has been around since the 70s, Dragunov has been around since 1958, .44 magnum has been around since 1950, the m79 (thumper) has been in use since 1961, and the RPG has as well.

But all those guns are still in production (well not the ak-47 that has been replaced by the 101's - little known fact) well I think most of them are at least or have been made lately.
Do these Winchester's still get made (the ones we are talking about)?
And still why were they even added?
 
So. I turned my xbox off just a few minutes ago mid game. Why? well first of all because of all the private match glitching bull shit going on in XBL I can't find a half way decent domination game, secondly, after I finally found a game. Guess what I died from about 8 times, THE DAMN WINCHESTERS!!!

AHHHHH RAGE QUIT!!!!!!!!!!1
 
But all those guns are still in production (well not the ak-47 that has been replaced by the 101's - little known fact) well I think most of them are at least or have been made lately.
Do these Winchester's still get made (the ones we are talking about)?
And still why were they even added?

The 1887 went out of production in 1920, but over the last 20 years or so several companies have started remanufacturing them and they have become very popular. The new ones are all reproductions and Winchester hasn't made them since 1920, but that really doesn't mean much and is pretty common as far as firearms go. Actually, one of the 3 companies making them today are out of Australia, company called ADI Limited.

As for why they put them in, I'd assume due to their popularity. They've become really popular over the last few years. They're very easy to shoot and very reliable. CoD 4 had some older weapons as well, including the mp44.
 
So. I turned my xbox off just a few minutes ago mid game. Why? well first of all because of all the private match glitching bull shit going on in XBL I can't find a half way decent domination game, secondly, after I finally found a game. Guess what I died from about 8 times, THE DAMN WINCHESTERS!!!

AHHHHH RAGE QUIT!!!!!!!!!!1

RageFace2.png










This is why dedicated servers were such a huge deal. Put it up to the people who ran the server to allow certain stuff instead of having to have one set of settings appeal to everyone. I'd rather see them simply add dedicated servers (this would boost PC sales a ton) and let people run servers without stuff they feel is over powered.
 
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^ Yea, I do actually like matchmaking. But there are currently 2 or 3 glitches (I've literally lost count..sigh) going on right now for the 360. One which somehow allows private games to be connected to through to matchmaking system, which means all stats count. Another is some kind of infinite ammo/auto-reload glitch. All of them combined with the Winchesters are forcing me to RAGE!

But yea, I couldn't really imagine playing the PC version without dedi servers though. That's what PC gaming is made for!
 
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