The Macintosh Platform.

tlarkin

VIP Member
yeah i've always wondered as to why Macs were not upgradable like you said above. people would really appreciate the fact that they have an Apple computer that they can put custom parts in

Yeah, let me give you some examples of the pros and cons of the iMac, from real life experience.

Now looking at upgrading computers on a massive scale, like enterprise level networks. This is two fold. For example lets say you have 5,000 desktops at your company. Now, your desktops have a 4 year replacement cycle. That is typical for any company or organization to keep technology replacement cycles, that way you can budget and plan for it. Some places do it yearly, some places do it every 5 years. Depends on needs for the users of your company. Most places I have worked it is 3 to 4 years. Also, most of them are deployed in phases that way you aren't stuck deploying 5,000 at once. It is all about project management really.

So, you are at a replacement cycle for 1,000 of those 5,000 computers and you are looking at the new desktops. Now, you already have monitors for these desktops so you can save some cash by just buying desktop replacements. That is a plus. OTOH, a lot of times it is more cost effective and more efficient to just replace everything. So, with the iMac you don't get the price slash of just buying a desktop and not buying a display for it. You don't get that luxury.

Now, what you do it, is it only takes one power cord, real little space and has everything built in and the powerful management of Unix under the hood. In one of the buildings I admin, it is very old and in fact it is historically preserved and is part of some historical society. The building is awesome I will have to take pics one of these days, and it even has a fall out shelter in the basement and tunnels from the whole cuban missile crisis and the cold war stuff. Anyway, back on subject. Since it is historically protected we can't drill holes in walls, or hang anything or do anything with out some sort of approval from whomever controls the historical society in my city. So, instead we have race tracks running cables all over the place. We also have limited power plugs, and that is where the iMac fits in perfect. We needed half as many power outlets because the iMac only needed one power plug, instead of two like most desktops. Of course we can't be running tons of surge protectors and extension cords either, you know if the fire marshal stopped by and saw that we could get fined for breaking fire code, but it is dangerous to begin with.

So, people can sit there and complain about it not being upgradeable, but to me that is moot. I am going to build a new PC here soon because my current one is about 4 years old now and is not cutting it for modern games. The only thing I need/use it for is pretty much gaming. Everything else I prefer OS X or Linux, and in my experience they are both more stable than windows. Now, I can't upgrade my 4 year old PC. They no longer make AGP video cards, the RAM I have in there won't support the speeds of a new processor, and of course my motherboard won't support a new processor because of the difference in sockets. I will need a new power supply to supply proficient enough power to my new video card since the new ones like to consume a bit more power. So, really in all, you can't really upgrade your computer, you are always pretty much building a new one. So, I don't fully understand how people cling to that argument like it is a valid reason to not like Macs.

The only thing I can agree with is not being able to say, choose to have a better video card in them. I agree, that is lame, but then again that is not entirely Apple's fault, though I definitely hold some of the blame on them.
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
Great, Free Open source apps for the Mac

The following is a list of really cool and free Apps that I have found and use, or have used in the past.

Textwrangler, best text editor ever! I write all my shell scripts in TW, and I love how it shows line number and changes font color automatically when writing code, and it works for all sorts of code: HTML, PHP, shell, python, ruby, pick your poison!

http://www.barebones.com/products/textwrangler/

DJay, a fun way to turn your iTunes into a virtual turn table.

http://www.djay-software.com/

Lingon. A plist editor for launchd items...real useful to automate launchd in OS X!

http://lingon.sourceforge.net/

VLC, everyone should use this regardless of platform since it runs on Linux/OS X/Windows

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

iStumbler - great wifi sniffer

http://www.istumbler.net/

Bwana - every shell manual page (man page) in html easy to read format!

http://www.bruji.com/bwana/

iAlertU - only works with systems that have the SMS controller in them, so all the laptops and i think the iMacs. It is basically a car alarm for your laptop. Once armed if anyone touches it, disconnects the power, closes the lid, or moves it an alarm will sound off. Even cooler is that it takes a picture using the built in camera and then emails it to you instantly. The youtube link shows how it works, it is really neat.

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/29578

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkAtRfA1UXc

Macsaber - pointless SMS app that makes light saber noises when you move your mac around. Actually, if you use this be sure you don't accidentally toss your mac across the room by swinging it.

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/21732

Copernicus - screen capture software. Great for creating demos

http://www.danicsoft.com/projects/copernicus/

Carbon copy cloner and netrestore. Great back up and imaging solutions totally free of charge

http://bombich.com/

Neo Office - Open source version of Open Office that runs natively on the Mac with out having to install X11.

http://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/index.php

There are other great apps out there and those are just a few that I use or have used and liked.
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
Trying to compare Windows to OS X

OK, to be fair here, we need to really just admit to compare OS X to Windows you need to be running Vista ultimate, because OS X has every feature Vista Ultimate has built in, and they didn't market it like MS did. They don't have 5 versions of feature limited Operating Systems.

Built in Features of OS X

  • Remote desktop client
  • Encrypted file systems
  • The ability to connect to domain network
  • Back up abilities

Now some of those features are maybe not desired by everyone, but if you want to compare them feature to feature, then you must use Vista Ultimate as the comparison. Otherwise you can not really fully compare OS X to Windows, unless you match all the features.

Criticisms on OS X

Not everyone needs those features so why pay for them all if you don't have to. Price of OS X is $130 for everything.

Criticism of Microsoft

Why market something by feature limiting? You give the consumer a choice but do they really want a choice and does the pricing really validate the feature limiting? Price for Vista Ultimate is $200 for the OEM.
 
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just a noob

Well-Known Member
my question is, is a mac really virus proof, as the commercials always say, is it really true(sorry if you already explained i only skimmed a majority of the posts)
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
my question is, is a mac really virus proof, as the commercials always say, is it really true(sorry if you already explained i only skimmed a majority of the posts)

There are no OS X viruses that are out in the wild like there are with Windows. To answer your question, is OS X virus proof? The answer is no, nothing is virus proof. However, given the permissions of Unix, a virus would require your admin rights to install itself on the system. So, the only way to get anyone to install a virus on their machine is through social engineering, or physical access. Of course if I have physical access to a machine you can throw almost all security out the window because physical access bypasses most securities.

So, for a virus to work effectively it would have to socially engineer you (trick you) into installing it on your system. For example, there was a codec that was required by quick time (falsely of course) that wasn't really a codec but it was trojan horse in disguise. You had to give it admin rights to install on your machine, and some people did. No OS is ever going to get around something like this, and this tactic has been used on the Windows side for many years now. Hey, install this anti-spyware software that actually downloads more spyware on your computer!!!!

So, as long as you download software from trusted sources and use applications like VLC, that don't need codecs, you will never have a virus on your mac. I have heard of office macro viruses for Macintosh platform and I have heard of the Classic OS viruses, but I have never ever once personally seen a Mac virus. I have been working with Macs professionally since 1999.
 

m0nk3ys1ms

Active Member
I have never understood why Mac OS is always dogged on. I find that Mac OS X is just as easy to use as Windows, if not easier. The only thing that draws me back from Mac OS X is that most games aren't supported by it, but thats why you install XP. :p Whenever I save up enough cash I plan on buying a Macbook Pro and use it as a desktop replacement pretty much.
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
I see some very immature little kids tagged this with the words balls and gay.

Just further proves my point that the people that bash the Mac platform on this forum are very ignorant, misinformed, and quite possibly not even at puberty yet.

Other myths to dispel:

They have the exact same hardware as a PC, so you can't say it is lower specs.

They have no compatibility issues, if anything they are the most compatible computer out there, period.

I will ask again, before getting a moderator involved. Don't post anything childish here, start a new thread if you want to spread misinformation or act like your are 12.
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
Shell scripting

OS X of course is made from Unix, and Apple did a lot to make it their own version. Over the years I have used scripts to automate certain things and help users out.

Below is a simple script I used to automate time stamped HMTL pages for bloggers so they can run a simple script to make a templated page with a date stamp.

Code:
#!/bin/bash

# make_page - A script to produce an HTML file 
# that has a date stamp

RIGHT_NOW=$(date +"%x %r %Z")
TIME_STAMP="Updated on $RIGHT_NOW by $USER"

cat << EOF
    <HTML>
    <HEAD>
        <TITLE>
    
        </TITLE>
    </HEAD>

    <BODY>
    <P>$TIME_STAMP</p>
    </BODY>
    </HTML>
EOF

If you copy the code into a plain text editor, and I prefer Textwrangler.save the file to a certain location. Like your desktop for example. Then use this simple code to run the script from the terminal.

Code:
sh ~/Desktop/myscript.sh | open -f -a "textwrangler.app"

This will out put the script into a plain text file in text wrangler which will look like this:

Code:
   <HTML>
    <HEAD>
        <TITLE>
    
        </TITLE>
    </HEAD>

    <BODY>
    <P>Updated on 05/28/08 12:21:26 PM CDT by tlarkin</p>
    </BODY>
    </HTML>

So it puts that date stamp and adds the user name automatically and creates a template HTML file. Just another really cool thing you can do out of the box with the Unix side of OS X.
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
Overall Value

Overall Value:

There is still a huge myth that Apple hardware is less powerful and truly more expensive. When you look at a machine be it desktop or laptop and be it PC or Mac you need to look at the overall value of the machine. Does it fit your needs? Does it exceed your needs? How long am I looking to own this machine?

When we look at a Mac, and the life of a Mac it is clearly a better value than a PC. This holds true to one simple fact. When it comes time to upgrade the OS, a Mac last a lot longer. Take a look at the minimum requirements for OS X 10.5:

Minimum System Requirements

* Mac computer with an Intel, PowerPC G5, or PowerPC G4 (867MHz or faster) processor
* 512MB of physical RAM
* DVD drive for installation

So minimum it needs a G4 867Mhz processor, with 512 MB of RAM and 9 Gigs of free HD space. What does Vista Ultimate require?

Windows Vista Ultimate
Recommended system requirements

* 1 GHz 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
* 1 GB of system memory
* 40 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of available space
* Support for DirectX 9 graphics with:
o WDDM Driver
o 128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)
o Pixel Shader 2.0 in hardware
o 32 bits per pixel
* DVD-ROM
* Audio Output
* Internet access (fees may apply)

Additional requirements to use certain features

* TV tuner card required for TV functionality (compatible remote control optional)
* Windows Tablet and Touch Technology requires a Tablet PC or a touch screen
* Windows BitLocker Drive Encryption requires a USB Flash Drive and a system with a TPM 1.2 chip

Actual requirements and product functionality may vary based on your system configuration. Windows Vista Upgrade Advisor can help you determine which features and edition of Windows Vista will run on your computer.

While all editions of Windows Vista can support multiple core CPUs, only Windows Vista Business, Ultimate, and Enterprise can support dual processors.
Windows Vista Ultimate
Minimum supported system requirements

Certain product features are not available with minimum supported requirements.

* 800 MHz processor and 512 MB of system memory
* 20 GB hard drive with at least 15 GB of available space
* Support for Super VGA graphics
* CD-ROM

This is somewhat laughable. We all know that Vista won't run on an 800Mhz processor. I have a P4 3.0 Ghz at home with 1 gig of RAM and Vista ran like a snail running for it's life who also has asthma. Even the minimum specs are misleading and the recommending. I had a 3Ghz processor and it ran like crap, and yet they say it will run off of a 1Ghz. I don't like it when companies dress things up like that. Now lets look at cost of the OS.

Leopard = $129 for single $199 for 5 licenses

Vista Ultimate = $319 for the full $219 for the upgrade

So, if you have several Macs, you can upgrade them all for 200 bucks. That is a great deal. In fact you will find that software licenses in general are cheaper for the Macintosh platform. A lot of that goes back to enterprise level networks, and you should really see my other thread on the Mac forum for that since it is long and huge and explains everything. I don't want to retype all that stuff.

Now, I am using Vista Ultimate as a comparison because it is the only fair comparison. Since Microsoft decided to feature limit their OSes I am forced to do this. One plus with OS X is they don't do that. You get every feature, hands down for that set price.

When you want to compare a Mac to a PC laptop or desktop, you need to compare it feature to feature. Macs tend to have higher end parts and more features out of the box, which makes up for the price difference.

Add in iLife suite and you would probably spend several hundred more dollars on software to make your PC have the same abilities. I know not everyone wants to edit video or master digital audio on their computer and then maybe a cheaper PC for internet surfing and office productivity is best for you. However, those that may be into that sort of thing should consider getting a Mac, because out of the box it does all of that.

Also just to give you a time line reference the G4 867Mhz processor came out sometime around the 2000 2001 era. How many computers which are 7 years old do you know of that can run Vista at all and at any capacity?
 
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m0nk3ys1ms

Active Member
Overall Value:

There is still a huge myth that Apple hardware is less powerful and truly more expensive. When you look at a machine be it desktop or laptop and be it PC or Mac you need to look at the overall value of the machine. Does it fit your needs? Does it exceed your needs? How long am I looking to own this machine?

When we look at a Mac, and the life of a Mac it is clearly a better value than a PC. This holds true to one simple fact. When it comes time to upgrade the OS, a Mac last a lot longer. Take a look at the minimum requirements for OS X 10.5:



So minimum it needs a G4 867Mhz processor, with 512 MB of RAM and 9 Gigs of free HD space. What does Vista Ultimate require?



This is somewhat laughable. We all know that Vista won't run on an 800Mhz processor. I have a P4 3.0 Ghz at home with 1 gig of RAM and Vista ran like a snail running for it's life who also has asthma. Even the minimum specs are misleading and the recommending. I had a 3Ghz processor and it ran like crap, and yet they say it will run off of a 1Ghz. I don't like it when companies dress things up like that. Now lets look at cost of the OS.

Leopard = $129 for single $199 for 5 licenses

Vista Ultimate = $319 for the full $219 for the upgrade

So, if you have several Macs, you can upgrade them all for 200 bucks. That is a great deal. In fact you will find that software licenses in general are cheaper for the Macintosh platform. A lot of that goes back to enterprise level networks, and you should really see my other thread on the Mac forum for that since it is long and huge and explains everything. I don't want to retype all that stuff.

Now, I am using Vista Ultimate as a comparison because it is the only fair comparison. Since Microsoft decided to feature limit their OSes I am forced to do this. One plus with OS X is they don't do that. You get every feature, hands down for that set price.

When you want to compare a Mac to a PC laptop or desktop, you need to compare it feature to feature. Macs tend to have higher end parts and more features out of the box, which makes up for the price difference.

Add in iLife suite and you would probably spend several hundred more dollars on software to make your PC have the same abilities. I know not everyone wants to edit video or master digital audio on their computer and then maybe a cheaper PC for internet surfing and office productivity is best for you. However, those that may be into that sort of thing should consider getting a Mac, because out of the box it does all of that.

Also just to give you a time line reference the G4 867Mhz processor came out sometime around the 2000 2001 era. How many computers which are 7 years old do you know of that can run Vista at all and at any capacity?

Also another thing to add. The G4's run Leopard quite well, and 512MB RAM goes quite a way in Leopard as well.
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
Did I push your buttons too far? Man you take stuff too seriously. lol

No, I don't get worked up over what some kid posts over the internet. What I am clearly doing is putting out information so that if people are considering using a Mac, they don't buy into the ridiculous crap that get posted on this forum, not just by you, but by many others who are well misinformed on the subject.

Hopefully Microsoft will learn from their mistakes make Windows 7 a better OS

I think you can tell that Windows is making a shift towards more of a Unix-like file structure and with Vista you can see that they are clearly getting rid of their user privileges and going to a more Unix-like one as well. For example, they got rid of the C:\Documents and Settings directory all together, and now just have C:\Users, just like um well OS X. They also don't require users to be administrators to do things like run programs, just like Unix. They also have a super user account kind of like the root account.

Vista does actually have some security benefits over previous versions of Windows, that I will not deny. I just wish it wasn't so damn bloated and I also wish they didn't feature limit and make you pay for more features in their OS, or at least changed their prices.

I hope also that Vienna will fix a lot of these things and finally drop the software bloat of old and busted legacy software.
 

G25r8cer

Active Member
I am not against mac's just to inform you. I simply dont have the money to dish out on a $2,000 mac. If I had the money then I would prob be in the same boat as you. I dont have alot of experience with macs but, it seems to me that the only reason I would get one is b/c of the over-security that Mac OS comes with. Although, I dont have too many issues with windows. Also, I simply like windows better b/c of the easy upgrades and compatiblity. Thats just my 2 cents. I am not trying to start WWIII here. Just stating my opinion.
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
I didn't start this thread to call anyone out personally. I started it because I grew tired of trying to defend my position, and I wanted to consolidate all the facts into one thread. If anything this should be referred to whenever anyone decides to start that age old debate again.

OS X has many advantages of usage over windows, not just security. However, like any OS it is different than Windows, and it will require you to learn about the differences. Most people who switch don't take that time and your average computer user could care less how it works as long as it works. Gamers tend to have a negative bias against Apple products, but they also represent a small amount of users and are considered by me a niche market. Plenty of people prefer to play games on consoles, and even I prefer to play games on consoles sometimes.

The advantages are outlined in this thread, but like I said in the beginning, if you are against using OS X and don't like OS X or Macs, and don't want to give it a chance or learn it, then it is most likely not for you.
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
Software Bloat

When I talk about how Windows has a software bloat, what I mean is by design it is chunky, and in my opinion has lots of unneeded things. Like one the registry causes so much bloating it is more of a hassle than an advantage. For one this causes the user to use add/remove programs or uninstallers. These things take up unneeded resources and waste time. Also, if you get a registry error everything is system wide and it affects all users.

So, when I say it is bloated compared to OS X and Linux this is because of a few reasons. OS X has what you call user level preferences. All preferences for all applications are located in ~/Library/Preferences, and they will all be listed as a .plist file. Each plist file goes by a standard conventional name, and the formula goes like this:

domain.companyname.applicationname.plist

So, if you wanted to locate the preference for say Microsoft Word on your Mac, you would browse under your home directory (which is what ~/ represents) to your preferences and it would look like this:

com.microsoft.word.plist

Now, in OS X if you had some weird errors with the application and you were loading a font, or it was acting weird but it worked great in a new user account you can assume it is related to a user level preference. Delete that preference and then restart the application. If the application can not find a .plist file present for that user account it will create a brand new one, with default preferences. Where as if a registry entry gets corrupted you are pretty much screwed and have to do a uninstall/reinstall of your application.

Furthermore, Microsoft puts in compatibility code, for legacy applications. While this is good for some users, it does also create more bloat. More unneeded code to make the OS more sluggish and give more opportunity for errors.

Criticisms:

While Apple does not have things like a registry, it also does not really have as good backwards compatibility as Windows. This is a two edged blade, with one edge being good for the user and one being bad. It is good because it allows you to use your older software and you don't have to upgrade. The bad side being that it creates bloat and also allows developer to be lazy and not upgrade their products but instead just create a new one. That is also somewhat subjective.
 

PunterCam

Active Member
I've had a mac pro for near on 2 years now, and I just couldn't get into osx.

The lack of free software is a real issue for me - if I want to convert a video file to another format I'm pretty much stuffed. I can't find any good 3rd party software for my video camera (imovie is useless, it won't accept that my camera is a camera most of the time), I've experienced many freak lock-ups and programs quitting randomly.

Lock ups and random quitting never happens in windows - in that respect I find XP extremely solid these days. On the other hand I have experienced loads of damn virus/spyware attacks recently, and it's insanely annoying.

What I find interesting is how OSX appears to have slowed down with the introduction of intel chips. I have a G4, 2 new imacs and the mac pro in my immediate family. The G4 (dual 1ghz processors I think) performs small tasks (opening word, safari, etc...) instantly, there is literally no wait.
The imacs (2ghz, 1gb ram) are, in comparison, extremely slow; it's a 3 second opening time for safari.
The mac pro still feels far more sluggish than the g4, but is quicker than the imacs.

Obviously performing full video encoding or something the pro is miles quicker than anything else, but it seems curious that a 4 year old computer is still speedier for day to day applications.


I disagree about apple needing a mid level tower - the imacs have easilly enough processing power and ram for gaming, they just lack a good video card. If Apple engineered the replacement to have an upgradable card slot...
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
Punter-

I am willing to bet if you create a new user account all your slow downs probably go away. There are other things that could cause that as well, however, I mostly see that happen when either a bunch of preferences get corrupted, or a user has like 100s of icons on their desktop. That will slow down any OS regardless of platform. Keep a clean desktop!

Not enough free software? Are you kidding me? What sort of free software are you looking for?

NeoOffice

Gimp

Audacity

textwrangler

Djay

handbrake

Max http://sbooth.org/Max/

Xlossless decoder http://tmkk.hp.infoseek.co.jp/xld/index_e.html

Mac the Ripper

Apple video rippers
http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Best/mac-dvd-rip-osx.html

I am not sure where you get the notion there is no free software because I have tons of free software, and if you install X11, you can compile Linux and Unix binaries to run on the Mac as well.
 
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