Upgrading Intel E6750 Stock Air Cooler (LGA 755)

[87dtna]

OK, you are simply not explaining it well. But it seems it doesn't matter. I even did it exactly your way and still got 10.2a-

35A for the 600W unit combined total max.

You then derate the TOTAL.

You then divide the total deration by the number of voltage dividers.

You then take that number and subtract it from each rail amperage.

You then have an acutal total (real world) for that PSU.

so, 29.16a for the 500w.

deration 30% is 8.75a

divided by 2 is 4.375

14.58 per rail minus 4.375 is 10.2a


Now I know I did that correct. And it still came out to 10.2a even though you said I was doing it wrong it still came to the correct answer.


And I could quote you saying earlier that it's *atleast* 30% derating. So I say AGAIN, it would have went poof in minutes of gaming. Your derating is plain wrong.

 

[Okedokey]

Yes, you're a brilliant brain mate, clearly.

If you don't believe me, may be JohnnyGuru? Probably the most well respected PSU reviewer?

A power supply that is rated to put out 550W at 25°C or 30°C (room temperature) may only be able to put out 75% of that at 40°C or 50°C (actual operating temperature). This difference is called the "de-rating curve". A normal operating temperature for a power supply is 40°C.

Here.

Even here, standard, he says 25%. So yes, what I have been saying is true, more so for such a crap PSU which is why I said at least. He goes on to say:

most power supplies are rated at 20C and have a de-rating curve of -1W per +1°C. That means for every degree over 20°C, your maximum sustained output is reduced by 1W. So in a more typical ambient temperature of 50°C, a 500W power supply may only be able to output 440W.
UPDATE: In PC Power and Cooling's "Power Supply Myths exposed" they show a "500W" with a de-rating curve of -4W/1°C.

So, Johnny Guru is doing it wrong too?

The point is you base one should base their judgement on a PSU based on worst case scenario, as I said above. In which case it is 1 - 4W per degree. Which, for 30oC is between 30W and 120W. As I have already stated, given the quality of this PSU it is wise to go with the most conservative approach, being 120W deration. This is 10A. So yes my deration is plain RIGHT!. Unless of course PC Power and Cooling, Johnny Guru are incorrect?

And if that isn't enough, the 500W was rated by HardOCP as a FAIL (literally):

the RP500-2 was an old low end unit in a pretty package that was being overrated in our testing. The build quality and design of this unit is very low and old (in that order); however this isn't that surprising as many companies shovel this kind of product out in their entry level units simply because it is cheap and available. The voltage regulation for the RP500-2 was actually going very well until it died; twice. The efficiency was also very good, for 2 or 3 years ago. The DC Output quality was also very good until the unit died; twice. In the end, two dead units, dodgy components, and a very low end design make the non-shellshocker price of $49.99 a rotten egg.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/02/16/entry_level_power_supply_roundup/14

 

[87dtna]

may only be able to put out 75% of that at 40°C or 50°C

Yeah that sounds the same as ''atleast 30%''


Looks like what Johnny is saying is 25% at the most....


So, I take it from your deflection that this time my equation is correct and YOUR figures come out to 10.2a on the rail for the 500w PSU....which proves you are full of crap. It is literally impossible that the PSU only provided 10.2 amps to that rail, as the GPU card alone uses atleast that much.

 

[Okedokey]

Its not impossible, they go bang when they are tested, twice as per my previous thread. The 75% derating was at 1W/degree, which he updated to up to 4W. So yes, its altogther possible.

End of the day, only a fool uses such a PSU and pushes it to its max. Of course, you're right 87dtna, all the while, the rest of the world is wrong. My apologies.

Even Rosewill de-rates their PSUs (both of them) by 20% at 50oC. That is a 70W reduction on the 500W and 86W minimum on the 600W PSU. Thats at best, so seriously, a 30% + derating factoring in real world conditions (e.g. dust, dodgy fans, overclocking, capacitor ageing etc) is sensible, and indeed backed up by PC Power and Cooling and JonnyGuru. So EVEN Rosewill state that normal operating temperatures, the PSU can only deliver 12V rail combined minus 7.16A. Thats Rosewill saying that, not me. So my calculation of additional loss of around 30W on each rail is pretty good and close to reality.

When at that point, they fail, the OP may not have got there yet, but thats the whole point, when he does, (by either running a GPU intensive game, overlcocking, or running hard during summer), it can take out the other components too.

At the end of the day, it comes down to whether you think my +5% additional derating is correct. Well, really, any person with a shred of knowledge wouldn't test me correct or otherwise with their gear would they.

 

[Koku]

When at that point, they fail, the OP may not have got there yet, but thats the whole point, when he does, (by either running a GPU intensive game, overlcocking, or running hard during summer), it can take out the other components too.

Just to be clear, this is pretty much saying that any given PSU (even high quality ones) that happens to go from old age (cheap parts = less lifetime) could fry other components, correct?

 

[Okedokey]

Yes, which is why you get PSUs rated at 40oC with more than enough amperage on the 12v rail. Good manufactures such as Corsair, XFX, Seasonic, PC Power and Cooling etc will have:

Active PFC
Efficiency above 80%
Single rail 12V (is better)
Large cooling fan (140mm) - manages derating by maintaining better temps
Japanese capacitors rated at 50oC or higher
Warranty of 5 years or more.

You get what you pay for, and the PSu is about the most important piece of kit.

However better quality PSUs will also have protection circuits to prevent taking out other components (it can still happen, but significantly less likely) and are continuous PSUs meaning they actually can deliver 100W or more than what they're rated at. Basically a 500W Corsair is a 600W PSU, labelled correctly.

And just to add *, many cases here we're talking (estensively ) about 20 or 30 dollars more. Not really a big deal and totally totally worth it.

 

[Koku]

Yes, which is why you get PSUs rated at 40oC with more than enough amperage on the 12v rail. Good manufactures such as Corsair, XFX, Seasonic, PC Power and Cooling etc will have:

Active PFC
Efficiency above 80%
Single rail 12V (is better)
Large cooling fan (140mm) - manages derating by maintaining better temps
Japanese capacitors rated at 50oC or higher
Warranty of 5 years or more.

You get what you pay for, and the PSu is about the most important piece of kit.

However better quality PSUs will also have protection circuits to prevent taking out other components (it can still happen, but significantly less likely) and are continuous PSUs meaning they actually can deliver 100W or more than what they're rated at. Basically a 500W Corsair is a 600W PSU, labelled correctly.

And just to add *, many cases here we're talking (estensively ) about 20 or 30 dollars more. Not really a big deal and totally totally worth it.

I agree, the PSU certainly does set the limits as far as how much you could push your system.

But I really could care less about if anything goes 6 months from now (of course longer is better, though).

I do not want to push out another $80+ to replace a new PSU, but I really wouldn't mind if it was somewhere around $30-40, if that's even possible, although I doubt I could get anything significantly better then my current one for that price.

I honestly don't see my current one dying in the next 6 months.

 

[Okedokey]

Ok well thats your choice to make, but at least you now know the risk. Previously the view was, itll work. Im saying, personally, its not worth it.

Especially when you can get this for $38 which is so so, very much better. Corsair CX430

Or this, CX500, which is better again, for $50 if you can stretch that far.

Its not the best PSU in the world, but light years better than that Rosewill.

 

[Koku]

Ok well thats your choice to make, but at least you now know the risk. Previously the view was, itll work. Im saying, personally, its not worth it.

Especially when you can get this for $35 which is so so, very much better. Corsair CX430

Or this, CX500, which is better again, for $50 if you can stretch that far.

Its not the best PSU in the world, but light years better than that Rosewill.

I've known the risk since like the second page, lmao.

Considering Corsair as a PSU brand has been suggested twice now, I'm sure it's a good brand.

Honestly speaking, would you really recommend the CX500 over the CX430? Would it really make a significant difference over the CX430 with my rig? Keep in mind, the rig that it would be put into will not be receiving any further upgrades as far as hardware.

And I'm going to assume that either could handle the simple 300MHz more of CPU power.

 

[Okedokey]

Yes the CX430 would be fine if you are not planning on putting in a very powerful GPU. Even a mid range GPU will be fine on that PSU.

 

[87dtna]

Laughing@both psu's recommended having 120mm fans and 3 year warranty.


Anyway, yeah my gtx550 Ti is twice as strong as your 9800gtx+ but actually consumes less power. Newer technology does wonders.

If you are considering buying a new PSU, just do it right the first time and get the 500w to keep your options open for future upgrades.

 

[Koku]

Laughing@both psu's recommended having 120mm fans and 3 year warranty.


Anyway, yeah my gtx550 Ti is twice as strong as your 9800gtx+ but actually consumes less power. Newer technology does wonders.

If you are considering buying a new PSU, just do it right the first time and get the 500w to keep your options open for future upgrades.

I'm sure your GTX*** does consume less power, as it has smaller parts. This was basically the only con to buying the 9800GTX+ over one of the GTX*** series when they were new. They basically had the same specs, but consumed less power. 9800 was like $100 cheaper, though.

This is the reason I didn't want to shell out $80+ (again) just so I could have the option to upgrade. Most of the parts in my rig are already dated (they were already middle-class when I got them), and by the time I finished upgrading it to something more recent I would have already of tossed most if not all the parts.

$35 to stop the chance of my parts frying it perfectly reasonable, just like I'd pay for a power strip with surge protection for any kind of electronic device incase of a blackout.

Trust me, the next rig I build will most definitely have a $200-300 PSU, and would not work with a PSU under that.

 

[Okedokey]

The GTX550 ti is nowhere near twice as good. It performs smilarly (5% better overall) than a 5770, which is about overall about 15% better than a 9800GTX. The 550 is a pretty low end card, better yes, twice as good - definitely no. Certainly not worth the upgrade!!

But I just don't know what the hell that has to do with this topic?

 

[Koku]

The GTX550 ti is nowhere near twice as good. It performs smilarly (5% better overall) than a 5770, which is about overall about 15% better than a 9800GTX. The 550 is a pretty low end card, better yes, twice as good - definitely no. Certainly not worth the upgrade!!

But I just don't know what the hell that has to do with this topic?

I think he brought it up because GPU's are a common thing to upgrade (assuming you didn't already purchase the best prior), the selling point behind "Getting it right" with the CX500.



So, I'll most likely consider picking up the CX430 PSU.

Would anyone care to comment on the Cooler now?

the COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus or the Hyper 212 EVO?

Again, keep in mind that I'm simply looking for average/safe levels of heat (summers here average like 103F), not to be the coolest PC on the block. 5C below what would be average is just as good to me as 10C below average. Which would better suit my system?

 

[87dtna]

Well, in real life, the gtx550 kicks the pants off a 9800gtx+. I've also owned a 5770, and it's easily and definitely stronger. That review must have been done with immature drivers. I may have exagerated slightly, but it's atleast 50-60% better. At the time my thoughts were on comparing it to my 8800gts 512mb, which is just a lower clocked 9800gtx+ and I know it's about 75% stronger than that. Which lines up with the specs if you look at them as well. gtx550 has 192 stream processors at 900 core clock, the 9800gtx+ has 128 sp's at 738 core clock. The gtx550 has 1/2 again as many SP's, which already puts it at 50% better performance, and they are higher clocked. Plus, the 550 has 30gb/s faster memory bandwidth, and of course 1gb of memory vs 512mb for the higher resolutions and AA/AF settings.

If you look up early reviews of the 5830, it showed it losing to the 5770 sometimes. When in fact, once drivers matured it is WAY stronger than a 5770 in fact it's not even close. It's much closer to 5850 performance. See, I just don't look at reviews like you and call it a day, I've owned and benched about 50 cards.

Anyway, the OP mentioned something about when he upgrades the rest of his rig and power requirements so I was just mentioning newer cards are more powerful and consume less power. I was not telling him to get a gtx550 at all.

 

[87dtna]

OP- I would really go with the 500w corsair. If you get the 430, you'll already be maxxed out again if you overclock. Albeit, a safer max but still pretty much maxxed out.

And on the coolers- They are both 4 heatpipe direct touch coolers, I cannot see how the evo is worth 35% more cost especially considering your needs.

 

[Computer_Freak]

the COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus or the Hyper 212 EVO?

The EVO and the + are the same thing. same heatsink, same cooler, same everything

the only difference is at the bottom. The Heatpipes are closer together (old design the middle 2 would take most strain, and outer 2 not so much) and they are now joined more "seamlessly" so you dont have the aluminium separators.

basically they refined the cooler to be what it should have been in the beginning.

get the EVO

 

[Okedokey]

OP- I would really go with the 500w corsair. If you get the 430, you'll already be maxxed out again if you overclock. Albeit, a safer max but still pretty much maxxed out.

Rubbish, even derated that PSU can still provide sufficient amperage for that maxed out system with plenty left over.

 

[87dtna]

Rubbish, even derated that PSU can still provide sufficient amperage for that maxed out system with plenty left over.

It's 28a on the 12v rail. 12a for the card, 5a for cpu, 3-4a for running board and misc accessories. So we are over 20 already. What about if he decides to overclock? Say he overclocks the card and that starts using 14a, overclocked cpu 6-7, and then 3-4 for accessories and now we are at atleast 24a on a 28a before derating. I wouldn't call that plenty left over, looks fairly maxxed to me.

And that wasn't even my point as running his current setup is no huge concern really. I said, for future upgrades. That way his PSU is already covered. What if he gets a 95w cpu, and a stronger graphics card that consumes more in the future? Then he's screwed and needs to buy a new PSU again.

 

[Okedokey]

You only need to derate that PSU by 10 - 20W (10oC @ 1 - 2W per degree) due to its quality and rating. Thats less than 1A. Also, this PSU can provide the full 27/28A continuously, with no issues.

Thirdly the OP asked for a PSU that will suit his current setup,now, for 30 - 40 bucks. Within that boundary, this is fine. And under that boundary, this PSU is no where near maxed.