Metal Gear Solid 4
- Thread starter bradyfan123
- Start date
The demo we lasted was the extent of an entire level and lasted over 15 minutes in length by our count, but remember that it was played by a Guerilla rep and that it'll take a newcomer a good bit longer to get through. Though there were a few pauses for loading at certain spots, Guerilla says that it'll have its streaming tech implemented by ship time and that you won't see any loads mid-level. When you see just how much stuff is here, you'll understand why this may not be an easy task.
If you would like a number to go with that, try 2GB. That's how big the single level was on disc, to which the Guerilla rep noted that the game's level of detail would not have been possible without Blu-ray.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/803/803129p3.html
tlarkin
VIP Member
Of course there is going to be plugs to back sony. However, take this into consdieration. You ever play the game FarCry? The whole game can fit onto one DVD. That game has sooooooooo many models and textures in it. There has to be millions if not more trees in that game. Fully rendered 3D model jungles.
What blu ray does is it allows developers to be lazy and not use modern compression technologies. 2gigs per a level? Ha maybe natively with zero compression what so ever. Not to mention compression technology is getting better and better. I have ran applications from encrypted compressed images off of a hard disk and the only notice of performance I get is when you first launch it, it loads the application a bit slower. However once it is launched it runs like normal.
I guarantee Sony nor the game developers will ever use the technology to its fullest. If you want proof just keep comparing PS3 games to an xbox 360. You will notice that they look and play the same and in some cases the 360 actually looks better. Just look at rainbow six vegas, it looks better on the 360.
tlarkin
VIP Member
Crysis isn't even out yet, so you can't even say its weak compared to today's standards because its not out today. DX 10 isn't even in full effect. And, on top of that if you put Farcry on highest settings with AA maxed it still looks fantastic and they fit it all onto one DVD.
Well you have dual layer DVDs, or DVD9 which most modern games fit on like Gears of War and Rainbow Six Vegas. Dual layer dvd hold about 9 gigs of uncompressed information which would be about 20gigs or so of compressed data considering decent compression is about double the space or 50% depending on how you look at it.
Some of the largest games out there like MMORPGS which have the largest land content and are 3D don't even go over 10gigs on a PC. Also I highly doubt compression software will ever get out dated because compression is in higher demand than the need for more space. Think about credit, and debt. Two major things that make a lot of people a lot of money. All of your financial data is being stored somewhere on a server, along with everyone else's which is compiled into one majorly huge database. which is backed up and those backups are most likely compressed to save space on tape or whatever redundant system they have in place. That data is far more valuable than any other data out there. Trust me, compression will never be outdated. Banks, credit cards, and the government have this type of information in a redundant system because they want to keep track of who owes them money. Trust me, they compress all that data into back ups over and over in multiple locations. One of my friends used to be a level II sys admin for a credit card company, one of his main duties was backing up the debt data, and there was tons of it.
Quantity does not equal quality my friend. The file size between a medium resolution texture and a high resolution texture does not justify the need for a 50 gig blu ray disc.
All sony is doing is saying hey, this is super high tech and you need this to be future proof and its the most cutting edge. So ignorant consumers buy into it, and they will never know the difference. I am sure the PS3 will have some very cool games, and in fact I would love to have one to play MGS4 because I have played and beaten every other metal gear game even on the hard levels. Snake eater was one of my favorites. I am not saying it won't be fun to own one. I am saying that blu ray and a cell processor is just outrageous hardware wise because it won't ever be fully utilized. For those of you that say its fool proof for 10 years, you actually think sony isn't going to put out a console for 10 more years and let the competition put one out ever 3 to 4? MS is going to release their 720 or whatever they are calling it by 2010 no doubt if not sooner. Then Sony and Nintendo will be almost forced to release new products just to keep up.
Like I said previously, compare it to a PC which does not need blu ray nor does it need a 7 core cell processor to run highest end games. Its a marketing strategy that sony is using to force their product into the market.
tlarkin
VIP Member
No, DVDs were already in the market, and DVD players were main stream since about 1999 and was introduced in about 1995. It wasn't something that was brand new like blu ray. Again, you are just reading the hype they want you to believe.
Also, looks like DVD 14 can hold about 13 gigs and change uncompressed so you are looking at 30 gigs approx compressed. Tell me what current game needs 30 gigs?
There are no current games tha need 30 gigs. That's the whole point. Blu-Ray is intended to make the PS3 more future proof so that, in a few years, when the technology really becomes useful, it will be ready. In the meantime, it can still be used for hi-def movies and the such.
tlarkin
VIP Member
I think you aren't seeing my point, and we are debating in circles here. With compression technology a DVD (regular old joe dvd) can hold up to 30gigs (approx) of data on it. So why do we need blu ray? I mean DVD technology is getting more and more space added to it over time as the technology gets better, and it is also getting cheaper. Two bonuses for the consumer right there.
The idea they are selling you about the PS3 being "future proof" is asinine because we all know that when 2010 hits and everyone else is releasing next gen consoles with bigger and badder video cards and are performing at higher levels (you know dual core GPUs are going to come out soon). Then sony will release a PS4 and your "future proof" console isn't so future proof anymore.
I understand your point and wish to thank you for offering your knowledge. It has certainly opened my eyes to the reality of Blu-Ray. Although I still think that Blu-Ray will, one day, be a useful technology. Like it or not, newer games are taking up more and more space and I personally don't feel that compression will be able to keep up.
I'd rather get a PS3 now and a PS4 in a decade than to get a 360 now, then a 720 in a few years, then a 1080 a few years after that. I don't like the idea of constantly having to upgrade just because Microsoft want to strap on a few more bells and whistles. Besides, I can't imagine the game developers being too happy with a console whos hardware changes before they have time to fully optimize for it.
tlarkin
VIP Member
I think blu ray and HD DVD have their place in the future, but I don't think they are needed and Sony could have waited for the technology to get cheaper.
As for new consoles, it is pretty common that they come out every 4 to 5 years. Just look at the charts from the wiki page. It is bound to happen and it sucks that you have to fork out the money, but if you are like me you never buy them when they first come out anyways, unless it is nintendo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console
I bought a NES, SNES, N64, GC, and a Wii right when they were all released
I bought a PS2 and xbox about a year or so after they were released.
All my nintendo's still work, even my NES from 1985 still powers on and plays games. Thats gotta be worth something.
As for new consoles, it is pretty common that they come out every 4 to 5 years. Just look at the charts from the wiki page. It is bound to happen and it sucks that you have to fork out the money, but if you are like me you never buy them when they first come out anyways, unless it is nintendo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console
I bought a NES, SNES, N64, GC, and a Wii right when they were all released
I bought a PS2 and xbox about a year or so after they were released.
All my nintendo's still work, even my NES from 1985 still powers on and plays games. Thats gotta be worth something.
hermeslyre
VIP Member
Another Nintendo fanboy! 
Yeah, Nintendo is the best compromise of awesome gaming\price. And as you noted on, a Nintendo console is built unlike any other.. I remember when I was 6-7 pulling an old beaten up SNES (it could have been a regular NES, i dunno) out of our neighbors junkheap/yard (trailer park). I was so excited to find out it still worked! It ended up being my first video game experience.. playing SMB and TMNT.
Cue the corny music.
Yeah, Nintendo is the best compromise of awesome gaming\price. And as you noted on, a Nintendo console is built unlike any other.. I remember when I was 6-7 pulling an old beaten up SNES (it could have been a regular NES, i dunno) out of our neighbors junkheap/yard (trailer park). I was so excited to find out it still worked! It ended up being my first video game experience.. playing SMB and TMNT. Cue the corny music.
tlarkin
VIP Member
I forgot to mention that I went through 2 PS2s and 2 xboxes as well, where as I have never had to replace a nintendo product with one exception. When my little brother was like 5 he stuck marshmallows in my NES, and the hot gooey marshmallow of course ruined the console. My mom was furious with him for breaking it.
My old roomate also went through two PS2s as well and the guy at my local gamestop has gone through 7. However, I bet he has some sort of gaming addiction problem
My old roomate also went through two PS2s as well and the guy at my local gamestop has gone through 7. However, I bet he has some sort of gaming addiction problem
hermeslyre
VIP Member
Heh, i went through 3-4 PS2's. I ended up figuring out how to fix them however...(certain ones at the very least) You would simply take the case covering off the dvd/cd drive and adjust the lens. You can either position it at the very back of the drive or play around with the height toggles but i got it so I could play any game i wanted on it.. Even the gold and blue backed discs!
Yeah my nintendos have lasted way longer than my PS2. All of them still work, but I had to ship my PS2 off to sony because the drive stopped working completely.
I enjoy the PS2 games more than the nintendo games though...with the possible exception of Golden Eye on the N64
I enjoy the PS2 games more than the nintendo games though...with the possible exception of Golden Eye on the N64
If you own an HDTV, you'll see that compression is the absolute last thing you'd ever want in a movie. Ever go to Best Buy and all of their HDTVs have a picture more of blocks when the camera moves than of people themselves? That's the compression, and it's much more noticeable in HD where the quality is there to be noticed.
Granted yes, a modern DVD does use compression, and you don't get these artifacts when watching on a HDTV, but on the other hand... a modern DVD isn't in HD.
tlarkin
VIP Member
Point in case, my neighbor has a 55" HD DLP TV made by samsung I think. He has a HD DVD player, xbox360, and his other neighbor has a PS3. I have watched DVD movies on all three platforms on the same HDMI 1080p TV. 1080p is 1080p is 1080p. there was no difference between HD DVD, blu ray, and regular old DVD with one exception and you are right. True black looks better on both HD DVD and Blu Ray because of the lack of compression. However compare that to a new dvd9 or dvd14 release where they can hold 9 or 14 gigs uncompressed, and it will look better.
The difference is very minimal as well, in some cases you can't tell, and if you are viewing it on an LCD HD TV then it doesn't disply true black anyways.
Personally I am waiting for the XED HD TVs to hit the market and I will be picking up one of those, they will display true black and have a response time of 1ms and will be very cheap since they are using old but improved CRT technology with them.