Well. Like most of the time I've been into computers, it's been nVidia, but now that I have researched more I've realized that ATI is better. This is because every ATI card that has similar to any nVidia card specs is much cheaper. I'm not really sure how good ATI is because I've never used it, but I've herd it's good. Another thing is that now ATI came out with the best video card in the world. It is the 3870 x2. It much better than the nVidia 8800Ultra, and still it is like $300 cheaper. That's why I now prefer ATI more. Imagine having 3870 x2 quad-crossfire (crossfire is the same thing as nVidia's SLI, but for ATI). The graphics would make your eyes bleed.
Nvidia or ATI
- Thread starter daflo1
- Start date
elitehacker
New Member
What do you mean by specs? You can not just look at clock speed and frequency, it does not work like that. In terms of real world performance ATI sucks. The architecture is different that is why they have different clock speeds.
I realized that when I got my Radeon X1650. I knew I should have gone with nVidia, but my dad was like "go for something with 512 MB of RAM on it!"
Next time I won't listen to him.
ThatGuy16
VIP Member
I agree, my main reason on going ATI was for a better motherboard, not to mention Crossfire thrashes SLI. Much better scaling.
This guy obviously know nothing when it comes to ATI, or graphic cards period.
This thread is for opinions, not for you to quote everyone that prefers ATI and say how "bad" it is.
.. I could say the same thing "nvidia sucks". I don't because i always go for what performs and looks best. Both manufactures produce excellent cards.
Why? Besides promoting fanboyism, can you provide any evidence thay they "suck?"
elitehacker
New Member
Well in terms of 3Dmark scores, they "suck" and also overclockability, they REALLY REALLY "suck". Also, the fact that most games these days are now in the "the way its meant to be played" program, so they are optimised for Nvidia, makes it suck even more. Even Half life which had traditionally favored ATI cards, (as in ATI consistently scoring higher than its Nvidia counterpart), is now working together with Nvidia. At the moment I'm a Nvidia fanboy because Nvidia performs well, when Ati gets its edge back like when Nvidia was in its dark ages (the FX series), I will support them and buy their cards.
And is my comment about frequencies incorrect? So Thatguy16, you are telling me that you can reliably judge performance from just the clock speed? I was just saying that you have to look at all the factors when you decide on what card to get and that includes, real world performance and overclockability, because quite frankly most people overclock these days and given a choice between a card that outperforms another at stock speeds but no overclocking headroom and a card that is marginally behind in stock but easily thrashes the other card when overclocked, I would pick the later. That scenarios is just an extreme, it does not describe the current situation with ATI and Nvidia at the moment, Nvidia cards are as good as if not better than its ATI counterpart and when you factor in overclockability, Nvidia just streaks ahead leaving ATi eating its dust.
Nvidia does have its shortcomings, I'm not saying that its perfect, price is one. Nvidia cards are generally more expensive then its ATI equivalent, but that's also the same in the CPU market as well, with Intel and AMD. It seems that AMD/ATi wants to concentrate in the mainstream to budget range of the market, and I want high range, so that's another reason why I'm a Nvidia fanboy and proud to be one. Another shortcoming would be dual card set ups, Crossfire thrashes SLi, but I don't use a dual card set up, so that does not affect my opinion of ATi, I prefer single card set ups.
The evidence that you so crave for, mep916 is here, I have had several ATi cards myself, being 9600GT and X800GT and they were ALL worse than its Nvidia counterparts. I have benchmarked my friend's X1650 as well as X1950 pro against my 7600GT and 7900GT respectively and Nvidia thrashes both of them. That's how I know that ATi cards have a very small overclocking headroom, I have real world experience in overclock those cards. I'm not just making that up out of thin air.
And is my comment about frequencies incorrect? So Thatguy16, you are telling me that you can reliably judge performance from just the clock speed? I was just saying that you have to look at all the factors when you decide on what card to get and that includes, real world performance and overclockability, because quite frankly most people overclock these days and given a choice between a card that outperforms another at stock speeds but no overclocking headroom and a card that is marginally behind in stock but easily thrashes the other card when overclocked, I would pick the later. That scenarios is just an extreme, it does not describe the current situation with ATI and Nvidia at the moment, Nvidia cards are as good as if not better than its ATI counterpart and when you factor in overclockability, Nvidia just streaks ahead leaving ATi eating its dust.
Nvidia does have its shortcomings, I'm not saying that its perfect, price is one. Nvidia cards are generally more expensive then its ATI equivalent, but that's also the same in the CPU market as well, with Intel and AMD. It seems that AMD/ATi wants to concentrate in the mainstream to budget range of the market, and I want high range, so that's another reason why I'm a Nvidia fanboy and proud to be one. Another shortcoming would be dual card set ups, Crossfire thrashes SLi, but I don't use a dual card set up, so that does not affect my opinion of ATi, I prefer single card set ups.
The evidence that you so crave for, mep916 is here, I have had several ATi cards myself, being 9600GT and X800GT and they were ALL worse than its Nvidia counterparts. I have benchmarked my friend's X1650 as well as X1950 pro against my 7600GT and 7900GT respectively and Nvidia thrashes both of them. That's how I know that ATi cards have a very small overclocking headroom, I have real world experience in overclock those cards. I'm not just making that up out of thin air.
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ThatGuy16
VIP Member
You need to do you homework and see what the new ATI cards are made of.
The 3870's are overclocking monsters compares to the nvidia series. AMD makes low end CPU's, yes. But their ATI department, no. Many, many hardware enthusiasts are switching from nvidia to ATI at the moment. I never said anything about comparing clock speeds, its all about core architecture. When it comes to dual card systems, like you said Crossfire is the king of scaling. While a 8800GT has that not so noticeable gain on paper over the 3870, the 3870 in crossfire has quite a lead over the GT's in SLI. In terms of 3Dmark score and how they "suck", the GT's may have about a 1,000 point gain. Now you should look at the multiple card scores, totally different story.
Your trying to compare some of ATI's worst cards over the years, we are talking about the new generation, which are nothing comparable to what you have "owned". I have personally seen both the 8800GT and the 3870 in action.
The 3870's are overclocking monsters compares to the nvidia series. AMD makes low end CPU's, yes. But their ATI department, no. Many, many hardware enthusiasts are switching from nvidia to ATI at the moment. I never said anything about comparing clock speeds, its all about core architecture. When it comes to dual card systems, like you said Crossfire is the king of scaling. While a 8800GT has that not so noticeable gain on paper over the 3870, the 3870 in crossfire has quite a lead over the GT's in SLI. In terms of 3Dmark score and how they "suck", the GT's may have about a 1,000 point gain. Now you should look at the multiple card scores, totally different story.
Your trying to compare some of ATI's worst cards over the years, we are talking about the new generation, which are nothing comparable to what you have "owned". I have personally seen both the 8800GT and the 3870 in action.
UpskirtHayley
New Member
i used to be loyal and a fan boy of ATi jus cause the fact that they have superior picture-quality over Nvidia.
....but now after i experience ATi long enough i notice that the rumors that ati driver suck is true. i experience many ati driver problem like some games it have conflict with ati driver ect....
im going Nvidia now.
....but now after i experience ATi long enough i notice that the rumors that ati driver suck is true. i experience many ati driver problem like some games it have conflict with ati driver ect....
im going Nvidia now.
elitehacker
New Member
The thing is Thatguy16, ATI is good for dual card systems, but I'm primarily talking about the single card market, as that is where the majority of people are in at the moment. In that market Nvidia rules supreme. The reason why people go with AMD/ATi cards and CPUs is not because they are good, its because they are cheap and usually people who can AMD CPUs and graphics cards are people on a really tight budget or does not care about performance, so they wouldn't care about ATI's dual card performance as they can't afford it anyway.
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elitehacker
New Member
I would really have to check out the HD3850 or HD3870 out for myself. Although the reviews I have been reading are not convincing,
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=703&p=8
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/3870-XXX/conclusion.php
I quote in the later review, "in gaming the GT is the better performer every time.", so yeah. I doubt AMD/ATI can compete effectively with Nvidia anyway, the market share that Nvidia and Intel has in the graphics and CPU market respectively makes it extremely hard for AMD/ATi to match them. Nvidia is making heaps in profits. The fact that the 8800GTX was the fastest card for more than a year shows the lack of competition from ATi.
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=703&p=8
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/3870-XXX/conclusion.php
I quote in the later review, "in gaming the GT is the better performer every time.", so yeah. I doubt AMD/ATI can compete effectively with Nvidia anyway, the market share that Nvidia and Intel has in the graphics and CPU market respectively makes it extremely hard for AMD/ATi to match them. Nvidia is making heaps in profits. The fact that the 8800GTX was the fastest card for more than a year shows the lack of competition from ATi.
ThatGuy16
VIP Member
After using both the 8800GT and the 3870, i wouldn't say those benchmarks are reliable.
The 3870 and GT are very close in performance single vs single as well. You make it sound like they are 1 billion FPS behind and are $5 hunks of junk
Lack of competition? Have you seen what these 3870's and 3870X2s have been doing, yeah... crunching 3Dmark records. And nvidia new 9 series isn't looking promising, as its still using the G92 core. At the $600 price tag, i hope they pray that the nvidia fanboys will break their wallets for their "new" technology. At least ATI can construct two GPU's on a single PCB.
Market share, what the hell does that have to do with their quality and performance of products? Last time i checked, this isn't AMD cpu's vs Intel cpu's. By the way, if those "reviews" said the sky was purple, would you believe it? right... you would have to go and see for yourself.
Like i said before, this thread is made for people to base their choices and opinions, not for your to troll everyone to selects ATI.
The 3870 and GT are very close in performance single vs single as well. You make it sound like they are 1 billion FPS behind and are $5 hunks of junk
Lack of competition? Have you seen what these 3870's and 3870X2s have been doing, yeah... crunching 3Dmark records. And nvidia new 9 series isn't looking promising, as its still using the G92 core. At the $600 price tag, i hope they pray that the nvidia fanboys will break their wallets for their "new" technology. At least ATI can construct two GPU's on a single PCB.
Market share, what the hell does that have to do with their quality and performance of products? Last time i checked, this isn't AMD cpu's vs Intel cpu's. By the way, if those "reviews" said the sky was purple, would you believe it? right... you would have to go and see for yourself.
Like i said before, this thread is made for people to base their choices and opinions, not for your to troll everyone to selects ATI.
Sorry guys.
elitehacker
New Member
Regarding two GPUs on the same PCB, Nvidia did that with the 7900X2 and the 9600GT does not have a $600 price tag. The only series 9 card is a mid range one, which should be between the 8600GT and the 8800GT in terms of performance so its not going to take the speed crown. ATI is not $5 hunks of junk, all I'm saying is that Nvidia is more competitive in terms of performance. Also, market share does has something to do with their quality and performance of their products, if there is no money coming in, how can they innovate and develope new technologies?
I"m merely expressing my point of view, and I have supported my view with evidence and reviews. Obviously you can't trust everything single word of the reviews, but they seems to be done it a fair manner, that's why I have read multiple reviews and not just one.
When I get a graphics card I don't just blindly shell out extra for Nvidia, I would rather pay less and get more, I"m sure that's what every consumer's end goal is. I spend 3 weeks researching the cards before I bought my 512MB 8800GTS in Jan 2008.
I'm actually fustrated at how lacking ATi is, I really want them to do better. For all those who have done economics will know that competition fosters innovation and also price wars which both benefit the consumer. I really don't want Nvidia to become a monopoly because that will mean higher prices and slower developement. I don't have a vested interest in Nvidia ( I wish I do seeing how well they are doing at the moment), that's why I"m very disappointed with AMD/ATi because they seem to have abandoned the high end of the market and just focus on mainstream budget end.
I"m merely expressing my point of view, and I have supported my view with evidence and reviews. Obviously you can't trust everything single word of the reviews, but they seems to be done it a fair manner, that's why I have read multiple reviews and not just one.
When I get a graphics card I don't just blindly shell out extra for Nvidia, I would rather pay less and get more, I"m sure that's what every consumer's end goal is. I spend 3 weeks researching the cards before I bought my 512MB 8800GTS in Jan 2008.
I'm actually fustrated at how lacking ATi is, I really want them to do better. For all those who have done economics will know that competition fosters innovation and also price wars which both benefit the consumer. I really don't want Nvidia to become a monopoly because that will mean higher prices and slower developement. I don't have a vested interest in Nvidia ( I wish I do seeing how well they are doing at the moment
), that's why I"m very disappointed with AMD/ATi because they seem to have abandoned the high end of the market and just focus on mainstream budget end.
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maroon1
New Member
Who cares if 9800GX2 has 2 PCB or not ? Why would a consumer care about that when 9800GX2 performs better ?
9800GX2 performs much better than HD3870 X2, just check the latest benchmarks
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266&p=4
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/03/18/xfx_geforce_9800_gx2_600m_1gb_graphics_card/9
http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=grfx&id=592&pagenumber=5
9800GX2 performs much better than HD3870 X2, just check the latest benchmarks
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266&p=4
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/03/18/xfx_geforce_9800_gx2_600m_1gb_graphics_card/9
http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=grfx&id=592&pagenumber=5
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ThatGuy16
VIP Member
I didn't say it didn't perform better, i think $400 for the X2 is a far better deal than $600 on that GX2. I'm still waiting on some personal benchmarks, to see exactly if that extra $200 is worth it. Also about it being on separate PCB's, have you ever thought about custom or after market cooling solutions on a dual PCB card, its possible, but would be far more difficult.
I'm extremely impressed with ATI lately. I had planned on getting a 8800GT myself before the 3870's caught my eye, but i also wanted a dual card setup and didn't want to be bothered with another crappy nvidia chipset..
I'm extremely impressed with ATI lately. I had planned on getting a 8800GT myself before the 3870's caught my eye, but i also wanted a dual card setup and didn't want to be bothered with another crappy nvidia chipset..
elitehacker
New Member
I have to admit ATi has lifted their game lately since the X1K but they still have a long way to go, they are fighting an uphill battle. I'm considering a dual card setup and if I do decide to get one then it will DEFINITELY be Crossfire, SLi is so disappointing.