Mac?

Well, by all means software you pay for should be oodles better then free ware. And in most cases free ware is only there to replace the closed software for ordinary users. If you really need PS CS3 for your profession, then by all means you'll go out and get the right software for the job. Plus, there is no way I would run major free ware in a corporate environment.
However if you just need to do basic alterations then Gimp is more then sufficient.

O, I know you have lots of knowledge on all this, frankly more then I could prob ever wish to have lol.

As stated, Mac has no need for an "Open" machine. In all seriousness, it would prob be more of a hindrance then a benefit.

Bob


Yup, and that is the beauty of the Mac, it can run all those free open source applications like Open office, Gimp, Neo Office, all those nice open source Linux packages via Fink commander, oh and of course windows and windows applications via cross over and the darwine project, or virtual machines, or even running it natively.

Not everyone needs Photoshop, that is for sure, but you can't really compare it to Gimp because Adobe makes a way better product, but I guess you could compare Gimp to like the small consumer version of Photoshop (the $100 version) and I bet the Gimp would have all those features plus more.

I just really hate it when people try to say a mac is way over priced because software generally ain't free, and the free software that is out there is comparable in a sense but ultimately not comparable because of features/performance versus the pay for applications.

Just trying to distill the misinformation this thread has given about the Mac platform.

Also, btw the Windows kernel is also get this, based off of Unix. Unix is pretty much the grandfather of all operating systems.
 
Agreed. Great conversation :D

Have fun defending the Mac name from the countless hordes of Mac haters lol. I see you being busy for a while to come lol.

Bob
 
have features no other laptop has like Ambient light senor, sudden motion sensor, FW800, ABGN wireless, blue tooth, gigabit ethernet, camera, 2gigs of ram standard (on the pro laptops), back lit keyboard, so on and so forth

I agree that Mac's come with better software, but I'm not sure on your wording in this one. Features that NO OTHER laptop has? My Laptop that cost me $1000 has all that minus the ALS, SMS, and backlit keyboard. I have seen other laptops with Ambient light sensors, sudden motion sensors, and backlit keyboards as well. Hell, the most useful of those features (SMS) I saw in a $500 thinkpad.

Not trying to start an argument, but a lot of people(The OP for one) only need to do simple tasks with their laptops, like listening to music, browse the internet, organizing pictures and doing simple editing, watching movies, and maybe write a resume or something. A PC CAN do this stuff out of the box. So for these people a Mac is overpriced. Sure there are people who need to do more intensive things like editing music and video, and by all means they should go for a Mac. But for the price, you can't beat the performance and versatility that a PC has.
 
I agree that Mac's come with better software, but I'm not sure on your wording in this one. Features that NO OTHER laptop has? My Laptop that cost me $1000 has all that minus the ALS, SMS, and backlit keyboard. I have seen other laptops with Ambient light sensors, sudden motion sensors, and backlit keyboards as well. Hell, the most useful of those features (SMS) I saw in a $500 thinkpad.

Not trying to start an argument, but a lot of people(The OP for one) only need to do simple tasks with their laptops, like listening to music, browse the internet, organizing pictures and doing simple editing, watching movies, and maybe write a resume or something. A PC CAN do this stuff out of the box. So for these people a Mac is overpriced. Sure there are people who need to do more intensive things like editing music and video, and by all means they should go for a Mac. But for the price, you can't beat the performance and versatility that a PC has.

I will have to disagree because a Mac will always have more quality control. Windows is designed to run on such a broad array of hardware and developers write crappy drivers, and MS keeps changing their standards on developers on top of that, you don't get the simple "it just works," like a Mac does.

Granted, Macs are not with out their problems or faults, if they were perfect I would not have a job, but they do have a higher standard of of quality. Also, you can not edit video and cut it to a DVD and master the audio on it all in HD like you can with a Mac out of the box. Windows movie maker? Are you kidding me? Sure it has that feature, but I wouldn't call it a close substitute by any means, nor are they even comparable. That would be like me trying to compare windows audio recorder to garage band, it just doesn't match up.

Is your IBM 1" thick and only weighs 5.4lbs and have a battery life of up to 5 hours on wireless productivity?

I have IBM laptops and have had many of them come through my way over the years as well as HP, Dell, Gateway, Acer, Sony, Fujitsu, Toshiba, so on and so forth. When I first started off in the IT field I was repairing those at an ASP for my job. I got see how they were built and how they worked.

I am telling you more design goes into a Mac than any other laptop and that is part of what you are paying for. Not to mention, every other laptop company can emulate but the real question is, can they innovate? They can copy the features but not innovate them in a such a manner that Apple has.

Also, please post links with all these laptops that come with these features standard, I would like to see them.

You don't have to be an audio or film professional to use a Mac. You just need to prefer to use a Mac is all.
 
I will have to disagree because a Mac will always have more quality control. Windows is designed to run on such a broad array of hardware and developers write crappy drivers, and MS keeps changing their standards on developers on top of that, you don't get the simple "it just works," like a Mac does.

Yes, Mac certainly has better quality control for the reasons you stated. I wont argue with that.

Granted, Macs are not with out their problems or faults, if they were perfect I would not have a job, but they do have a higher standard of of quality. Also, you can not edit video and cut it to a DVD and master the audio on it all in HD like you can with a Mac out of the box. Windows movie maker? Are you kidding me? Sure it has that feature, but I wouldn't call it a close substitute by any means, nor are they even comparable. That would be like me trying to compare windows audio recorder to garage band, it just doesn't match up.

I totally agree, but as I said a lot of people don't need to do that.

Is your IBM 1" thick and only weighs 5.4lbs and have a battery life of up to 5 hours on wireless productivity?

Not an IBM, a Dell. It's a little over an inch thick, dunno how much it weighs, but it's not bothersome, and I could get about 4 hours on wireless productivity.

I am telling you more design goes into a Mac than any other laptop and that is part of what you are paying for. Not to mention, every other laptop company can emulate but the real question is, can they innovate? They can copy the features but not innovate them in a such a manner that Apple has.

I agree, but design isn't a huge issue for me. I actually prefer the design of my Dell over my parents Macbook, but it's a personal preference thing. I agree that Apple is quite innovative, but they didn't invent everything they use. I certainly do love the click wheel they put on iPods, beats any other button scheme anyday.

Also, please post links with all these laptops that come with these features standard, I would like to see them.

If your looking for a laptop that has all of them they are far and few in between, but that wasn't my point. My point was that other laptops do have the features, maybe not every one of them, but they do have the features. I didn't fully understand your wording which made it seem like you'd never be able to find a PC with say bluetooth, or a backlit keyboard.

Anyway, I don't think Macs are overpriced, you do get what you pay for. I was just saying that they are not the best for a budget minded person, where all of those features aren't necessary. Like me for example. I can live without SMS, light sensor and backlit keyboard, especially if I can save a few hundred dollars in doing so.
 
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If everything "just works" on a mac, why does it have so many helpsites like a pc does? A mac can run windows big deal. You can't hear yourselves? The mac can RUN WINDOWS. I haven't seen a computer that "copies the features of a mac".

The thinkpad X61s is .8" thick on it's lowest area. Only weighs 3.3 pounds.
Here is an excerpt from a review of the x61's battery.

"Users buying the X61 intend to take it with them, which makes battery life of paramount importance. There are three battery options for the x61(s): a slim four cell, an enhanced four cell and an eight cell battery. The review unit came with the larger eight cell battery. It was both a blessing and a curse. Equipped with larger eight cell battery, battery life was nothing short of spectacular. Setting the screen to 7/15, the CPU to Low in Power Manager and WiFi on, I was able to get six hours and thirty-three minutes of battery life doing things like working on the review, editing photos and Internet. Testing it was the curse. I personally found sitting at the PC for that amount of time difficult. I did periodically get up to stretch or do other things, ensuring the screen remained on while I was away. If you were to dim the screen more which I think is doable or turn WiFi off, you could get even better results. In addition to sticking out the back and adding about a half pound of weight, the larger battery also raises the bottom of the X61s a bit, not as much as say the HP dv2500, but worth mentioning. The X61s also employs a new battery saving software called Battery Stretch."
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3800&review=X61s

So, " Is your IBM 1" thick and only weighs 5.4lbs and have a battery life of up to 5 hours on wireless productivity?" - YES
 
Yeah that thing has no optical drive so its not using power to power the optical drive, it also has no trackpad? I hate those eraser head things, and it has a freaking docking station, which is lame and takes away from it being portable in the first place.

It is a matter of opinion on preferences like we already established, but that IBM hardly compares to a Macbook out of the box, which is what my argument was to begin with.

Also, maybe you should learn about user level plists, system level plists, launchd, POSIX permissions, self contained applications, no clunky grossly bloated registry, and then try to tell me that Mac's just don't work.

Like I said previously, they do just work, I know because I support 6,000+ of them at my work for a living, and they are much easier to manage than Windows machines for sure.
 
@tlarkin, the air has no optical drive either... rofl.

Try telling the thinkpad community how "IBM hardly compares to a Macbook out of the box"

Also, it's not an IBM notebook. It's called LENOVO.
 
@tlarkin, the air has no optical drive either... rofl.

The airbook is what it is, and is not meant to replace a laptop, it also has solid state memory. It is a different product all together, and it will never replace the macbooks or the macbook pros. That Lenovo hardly compares to an Airbook either, it is like some hybrid inbetween, plus the airbook has it beat on battery life and weight, not in the same class, and the Airbook I think is the thinnest fully functional laptop period, unless you count the Eee PCs.

Try telling the thinkpad community how "IBM hardly compares to a Macbook out of the box"

Also, it's not an IBM notebook. It's called LENOVO.

Why, will they also try to argue back with pointless arguments with nothing to back up what they say? Also, to my knowledge Lenovo was bought out by mostly the Chinese government, but IBM still owns like 10% of the shares or something like that. It is semantics regardless though.
 
This whole thread is a waste of time, I actually tried to put down some correct information, you insisted on arguing with me and can not back it up.
 
@tlarkin... Don't feel bad, at least I've learned a lot from this :P

(I wouldn't compare macs to Porsche, though. Macs are great, but I'd say they're more like Lexus at best, but not Porsche... of course this is just an opinion.)
 
I am just saying a dual xeon work station that looks like a Mac Pro is just like a Porsche. Very powerful, very sleek, and you pay for what you get a high performance machine.

Remember, not everyone needs to own a Porsche, in fact no one needs it, but some just prefer it.
 
but he's talking about a mac laptop.. not a mac desktop.. It's not like you get 8 or even 4 cores in a macbook. A mac laptop is not very powerful when they max out at an nvidia 8600 graphics card.
 
but he's talking about a mac laptop.. not a mac desktop.. It's not like you get 8 or even 4 cores in a macbook. A mac laptop is not very powerful when they max out at an nvidia 8600 graphics card.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Video cards only count in performance in two areas: 1) gaming and 2) 3D rendering. If you want to play the newest games that the highest settings, yeah sure, a macbook pro may not be your best bet. If you want to do 3D rendering, none of those gaming cards are what you want, you would want a render card like a Quadro.

Secondly, my analogy still stands, because the macbook pro will out perform almost every laptop on features alone. I mean for one, it is the only laptop that can run pretty much every OS out there. Next it has every feature built in standard. Sure some laptops come with blue tooth, some come with ABGN wireless, some come with a back lit keyboard (I still haven't see any others that do, but I will take Speedy's word on it), some may come with FW 2 and a built in camera, but no laptop comes with all of that standard. Plus have all of that standard and only be 1" thick.

Your arguments hold no water and you don't know what you are talking about. 8600GT video card is absolutely fine for every application except for the two I mentioned, and even then it would still get the job done just not as good as perhaps a few other video cards out there. Why do you think Hollywood movies get edited on a freaking macbook pro? Did you know post production editing for Transformers was done all on Macs?

Now take into consideration the innovation that goes into a Macbook Pro. let me start by saying, the mag-safe AC-adapter connection is just pure freaking genius. It is held by a small magnet, so if I get up and go and forget that my laptop is plugged in I don't rip it out the DC port on my laptop. Which, trust me is a huge common problem amongst all laptop users. Next, the ambient light sensor. I am in my living room typing away and it is dusk and the sun starts to go down and my room darkens. My keyboard automatically back lights, and the screen automatically adjusts brightness to compensate staying with in my power consumption settings. I need to sync my cell phone contacts, well no problem because with isync and blue tooth I just pair them, hit sync and voila, all my contacts are instantly backed up. I can also sync any type of PDA or of course my iPhone (if I had one). iSync works with iCal as well as email clients and office documents. Sure there is some left to be desired but that is because not all developers keep up with the Mac platform. I have a digital camera and i want to take off all the pictures real quick and organize them. iPhoto requires no drivers at all, it just works plain and simple. I dump all of them in there and it instantly organizes them by date and whatever I want to do it further. I can then burn photo CDs by simply dragging them into albums or create a slide show with music, then dump that slide into iMovie and I can add post effects, voice over, whatever. Create my own custom music in Garage band and dump it into iMovie as well. Then take that final project to iDvd and make menus for it and author it so it can play in a stand alone DVD player.

The fact that all these applications and features just work smoothly, simply, fast and efficient with a stream line and ergonomic design, I can easily compare any Mac to a Porsche. The bottom line is, whatever you own and whatever you do with it, you want it to work and work all the time. Apple accomplishes that in a way no one else quite does, and for that I have to tip my hat to them. There is some left to be desired but in the end I would prefer to have quality over quantity.

End of story.

For the record I am not a Mac elitist either. I use Linux on the PC side a lot, and I don't mind XP. I don't like nor will I support Vista, too much DRM for my taste, not to mention software bloat. I am not a huge fan of iTunes really, and would prefer to not use it but I have an iPod.
 
Most computers don't come with backlit keyboards, or bluetooth ect. But you can get most of those (-keyboard ---my m15x has it---) for less than a $100 upgrade. A $1000 laptop with those costs $1100. Not $2000 (MBP). Having a "magnet" to plug in the power cord doesn't make it a "genius" laptop. The Macbook solves lazy people's problems so you just get lazier (eg no turning lights on/off, plugging cords in, screen brightness ect). I plug my camera sd card in my laptop, and no drivers were required.

"I dump all of them in there and it instantly organizes them by date and whatever I want to do it further. I can then burn photo CDs by simply dragging them into albums or create a slide show with music, then dump that slide into iMovie and I can add post effects, voice over, whatever. Create my own custom music in Garage band and dump it into iMovie as well. Then take that final project to iDvd and make menus for it and author it so it can play in a stand alone DVD player."

You can do all of that on a pc, but they are called windows movie maker. And it's free.
It's not just the graphics card that's better on a pc for the price. Look at these comparisons between the macbook pro and a dell xps (starting at $999)

Macbook Pro price - $1999
2.4ghz dual core
2gb ram
200gb
8600 graphics
Apple airport extreme -same-
--no internal modem

Dell XPS price -$1684
2.5ghz dual core
4gb ram
250gb
8600 graphics
Next gen wireless N

As you can see, the xps wins in the following categories
Processor
Ram size
Hard drive size
Modem if you count that
for $315 less.

For the same specs on a macbook, you need to spend $2699. You save over $1000.
 
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Now I bet he's gonna say that you'll need to spend that extra $1000 on equivalent software of a mac for a pc.

I don't think so
 
@speedyink, nice link
my laptop :P


@pawz, what's this about software? The software (besides what windows comes with eg. dvd maker, movie maker) costs about $100 to make music.. some for $40 or less.. It's not like you have to spend $600+ for a piece of software to make music.
 
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